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The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

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Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#131

Post by alexashka »

This is an incredibly disrespectful article.

> He was, in effect, a walking slab of meat to be trotted out whenever a Peking opera production needed a singer or dancer or acrobat.

These hyperboles, so full of off-putting judgements are completely unnecessary. It's almost as if the author is hoping to gain, by being as rude and sensationalistic as possible.

Imagine if the author of this article actually met Jackie Chan - he'd crumble in shame if he has an iota of decency left in him/her. This article can be renamed 'the painful price of trying to be a journalist' - it'd be more accurate.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#132

Post by SolaceQuantum »

stcredzero wrote: post #127
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does not answer the question.

One can always find a singular example of something really horrible, then try to use the emotional energy of that to drive their point home. In most cases, and in this case, there are other issues which you can't disentangle so easily. My reply does indeed answer the question, as to the part of the experience of such a child I could understand. In particular, I was severely abused by a classmate, and felt unable to a…

I did not ask about abuse. I asked about exploitation.

A further question: Are you performing the same rhetorical tactic that you are telling me that I am performing through your anecdote?

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#133

Post by JohnBooty »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #46
JohnBooty wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A note of clarification: Drunken Master is pretty good! Drunken Master II (re-released in slightly edited form as "Legend of the Drunken Master" in the US) is the one that's typically regarded as a bona-fide classic masterpiece.

Thanks for clarifying! I had to look it up, but I'm definitely referring to the first one in this case. I don't even think I've seen the second one! Guess it's going on the list

Oh my lord you are in for such a treat. Enjoy it!

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#134

Post by JohnBooty »

pimlottc wrote: post #97
JohnBooty wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of martial arts action those movies are pale shadows of his earlier Hong Kong work. Partially because Chan is older in those movies and is a little less physically capable. But IMO mostly because of Hollywood's unfortunate style of directing fights and martial arts battles. Traditional Hong Kong martial arts movies use a lot of wide and long, unbroken shots. You can really see the performers performing these…

WRT your comments regarding framing/cutting techniques, the episode of “Every Frame a Painting” mentioned elsewhere in this discussion goes into this in depth and really demonstrates how it makes a big difference in the type of action that Jackie excels at. Highly recommended if you haven’t watched it before (along with the rest of the videos in the series).

I will definitely check that out!

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#135

Post by stcredzero »

vinceguidry wrote: post #106
stcredzero wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Hong Kong opera school is described as indentured servitude. Which is considered by many to be a form of human trafficking. My own family history has a lot to do with indentured servitude. If you watch Korean historical dramas, you'll find the condition described as being a "servant" but at other times, the same condition will be described as being a "slave." In terms of being signed up as minors, exactly how d…

> In terms of being signed up as minors, exactly how do you draw the line? I think minors need to be free to follow the wishes of their parents who are free to exercise authority as guardians. Interfering with that should be a human rights violation. But if the parents wish to send their kids to a boarding school, that has a long history of being a successful way of providing children with an education. If Chan was s…

If Chan was sold into servitude by his parents, I think that's de facto slavery

What would you think of a boarding school, where there is a meritocratic selection of child candidates from among primarily underprivileged families? The families that are selected receive a payment. The child is housed, schooled, and given rigorous training in a prestigious performance art.

Is there something in that which is de-facto slavery? Isn't that a description of the circumstances of Jackie Chan's family? I would agree with you, that there is significant potential in such an arrangement for abuses, but it's not a simple black&white situation for instantly considered condemnation.

you can't sell the personal autonomy of another person, not even your children

Parents often override the personal autonomy of their children "for their own good."

I don't have all the answers. But certainly there's more to it than what we'd call kidnapping.

No disagreement.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#136

Post by vinceguidry »

stcredzero wrote: post #135
vinceguidry wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In terms of being signed up as minors, exactly how do you draw the line? I think minors need to be free to follow the wishes of their parents who are free to exercise authority as guardians. Interfering with that should be a human rights violation. But if the parents wish to send their kids to a boarding school, that has a long history of being a successful way of providing children with an education. If Chan was s…

If Chan was sold into servitude by his parents, I think that's de facto slavery What would you think of a boarding school, where there is a meritocratic selection of child candidates from among primarily underprivileged families? The families that are selected receive a payment. The child is housed, schooled, and given rigorous training in a prestigious performance art. Is there something in that which is de-facto sl…

> What would you think of a boarding school, where there is a meritocratic selection of child candidates from among primarily underprivileged families? The families that are selected receive a payment. The child is housed, schooled, and given rigorous training in a prestigious performance art.

If this is a public, regulated social institution, then I see no problem with it. I don't want to say that children shouldn't be made to do work, but removing them from a family environment to be exploited absolutely draws the line. I just don't know where precisely to make that legal distinction.

> Parents often override the personal autonomy of their children "for their own good."

And that's fine. We have a fairly good understanding of what constitutes child abuse, it's the removal from the family that needs to be carefully considered.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#137

Post by darkerside »

betenoire wrote: post #69
darkerside wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attitude may be technically correct, but it's not very productive. Why emphasize your own lack of control over your life? It's certainly possible for it to become a self-fulfilling prophecy, even if the inverse is not true.

Not productive in what sense? Knowing your limits let's you focus your energy in other ways and areas

That's great advice. Especially if you get specific about the other ways and areas one an focus on. But what parent post said was, you'll never be a billionaire or literally Jackie Chan, so don't try. Seems (to me) like a waste of mental energy to even process that.

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#138

Post by fredgrott »

vinceguidry wrote: post #17

The author doesn't want to treat Chan's insistence on his account being an inspirational one and just wants to see it as sad. I'm reminded of a Quora answer by a guy who loved fighting, one phrase he used stuck out at me. "Great fighters have to kind of like getting hit." You can't push your body to its very limits without getting injured. Planning and preparing for it is not sad, it's smart. Chan's account should be…

reminds me of Lee's story from my time period...same HongKong hellhole but he got out at an early age

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#139

Post by stcredzero »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #132
stcredzero wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can always find a singular example of something really horrible, then try to use the emotional energy of that to drive their point home. In most cases, and in this case, there are other issues which you can't disentangle so easily. My reply does indeed answer the question, as to the part of the experience of such a child I could understand. In particular, I was severely abused by a classmate, and felt unable to a…

I did not ask about abuse. I asked about exploitation. A further question: Are you performing the same rhetorical tactic that you are telling me that I am performing through your anecdote?

A further question: Are you performing the same rhetorical tactic that you are telling me that I am performing through your anecdote?

An observation: "Think of the children!...No what the children think doesn't matter!...What you thought of as a child doesn't either!"

Hmmmm...

Re: The Painful Price of Becoming Jackie Chan

#140

Post by dmoy »

mac01021 wrote: post #126
jdietrich wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not always terribly exciting to watch, but Mayweather's pathological aversion to getting punched is certainly effective.

Never thought I'd hear an aversion to being punched described as pathological.

Most boxers will trade punches a lot more. Floyd just apparently figured out that total defense is better.
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