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Lies We Tell Kids

paulgraham.com

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Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#131

Post by jamesbritt »

pchristensen wrote: post #93
meredydd wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed - Curie was most definitely "the shit", and that shouldn't be taken away from her. However , it is also almost certainly true that she was taught because she was female. Now, I'm not entirely sure that's a bad thing. I would, in fact, suggest an addition to PG's categories of lies: "Making kids think things are easier than they are". No-one knows better than PG, living in the start-up world, that Big Things ar…

"Making kids think things are easier than they are" Probably the most important lie I've unraveled in my mind over the last couple years reading experiences from real people (pg, etc) and things like "Myths of Innovation", etc. This is ESPECIALLY dangerous if you (or your kids) are smart. If you're fairly smart, then school is easy. It's easy, so you never fail, so you never understand that many things (including mos…

"This is ESPECIALLY dangerous if you (or your kids) are smart. If you're fairly smart, then school is easy. It's easy, so you never fail, so you never understand that many things (including most worth doing) are hard."

Add to that parents who keep telling their smart kids how they expect them to do well, that they can be and do anything they want in life, etc., and the amount of personal disappointment these kids face when life turns out to be more than just doing well on your SATs.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#132

Post by pchristensen »

scott_s wrote: post #43

Protecting kids might be one of the reasons that people move to suburbia, but it's not the only reason. People like living in large houses and having land. That's exorbitantly expensive in the city for middle class families. I also grew up in the suburbs, and I experienced the boredom pg talked about. There was nothing for me and my friends to do . I remember thinking that living in an urban environment would be unth…

I have a house in the suburbs but would rather live in the city, despite the smaller size I'd be able to afford. The biggest benefit for me to the suburban house is that my kids have room to run around and expend some energy in the winter when (or hottest part of the summer) when it's not so nice out. Other than that, I'd rather have a 2BR in the city with the kids in bunk beds.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#133

Post by pchristensen »

johnyzee wrote: post #30

I'm not sure that keeping kids innocent helps their learning. I've met many kids who have 'seen too much' by accepted standards and invariably they have been by far more emotionally mature than their peers, often enabling them to do well in terms of education. Unless there are other factors at play, such as adverse social conditions, I think kids can handle more reality than we tend to believe.

I think this plus pg's point about "cuteness" is key - kids are ready to be emotionally mature, but parents don't want to let them have the experiences required to gain that maturity.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#134

Post by asnyder »

Prrometheus wrote: post #112
asnyder wrote: post #19

Besides being a woman, Marie Curie was the first and ONLY person to ever recieve a Nobel Prize in different sciences. Something her male counterparts have yet to do, so maybe there's something there besides her sex.

Was her work more important than Newton's, Darwin's, or Watson's? I'm not questioning that she was a great scientist. However, if you are going to remember three, she should not be one of them.

If you had to remember only three you could easily have an argument debating the merits of any three scientists. I wouldn't say her work is more important than those three, but I would say it's on that level. The book "Six Great Scientists" by J.G Crowther seems to think so too. It's quite unfortunate that Wikipedia has very little on her.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#135

Post by pchristensen »

jamesbritt wrote: post #131
pchristensen wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Making kids think things are easier than they are" Probably the most important lie I've unraveled in my mind over the last couple years reading experiences from real people (pg, etc) and things like "Myths of Innovation", etc. This is ESPECIALLY dangerous if you (or your kids) are smart. If you're fairly smart, then school is easy. It's easy, so you never fail, so you never understand that many things (including mos…

"This is ESPECIALLY dangerous if you (or your kids) are smart. If you're fairly smart, then school is easy. It's easy, so you never fail, so you never understand that many things (including most worth doing) are hard." Add to that parents who keep telling their smart kids how they expect them to do well, that they can be and do anything they want in life, etc., and the amount of personal disappointment these kids fac…

I've taken great care (and gotten my wife on board too) to change the way we praise our older girl. When she does something new, we no longer say "Wow, you're so smart!" - we say "Wow, that was great how you worked hard and kept trying until you succeeded!".

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#136

Post by dgabriel »

pchristensen wrote: post #128
dgabriel wrote: post #4

My least favorite pg essay. It's too easy to generalize about parenting, and so little of this essay applies to me. 1. Raising a kid in the city, and quite happily. 2. No prohibitions on swears in my house. Just at Grandma's, and only because it would offend her, not because swearing is inherently bad. 3. He goes to a school where they only teach you how to read, write, and do basic math. Everything else is a child-l…

A couple questions regarding your points: 1) which city, and how urban? I keep trying to convince my wife that the city (Chicago in my case) is ok and I'm gathering data 3) that sounds like a great school - public or private? name? I'd love to find a school like that.

I live in Cambridge, MA. While it's not inner city, it's not the burbs, either. I have several parent friends who live in NYC, Austin, and DC, as well. Chicago sounds like a great city to raise a child. My son goes to a Montessori school, and it's perfect for him. He's already defining his own curriculum, and starting to work on being responsible for setting and accomplishing his own goals (he's 6). However, YMMV with Montessori programs. Some are much better than others.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#137

Post by astine »

jamess wrote: post #109
astine wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally know quite a few people who are offended by foul language. What constitutes foul language may be cultural but that's beside the issue. Imagine, a child from 1950s American suburbs was raised in that belief that certain words were wrong to use. The child was consistently reinforced in this belief throughout his childhood by all adults he met but never had it explained to him. Later, as an adult, he finds…

Keeping a taboo when the underlying reason for it has gone away tends to be detrimental for society. I saw a wonderful documentary recently called "Born rich" (I highly recommend it, amongst other things from it I finally learned why there are a number of US personalities whose educational background seems so at odds with their outward demeanour. It's that the privileged simply can't get chucked out of a University,…

"In short, if you suspect a taboo is no longer culturally relevant you should probably consider yourself to have a duty to break it to get it out of the way as quickly as possible."

If your goal is change society, maybe. But, if your goal is to succeed within a society, then maybe not. Some taboos begin for good reason and just because you suspect that they're not relevant doesn't mean that they're not.

I would suggest that if you suspect that a taboo is no longer relevant, you have a duty find out for sure and learn why it ever was in the first place.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#138

Post by jdefontes »

I think the statement "as a rule people planning to go into teaching rank academically near the bottom of the college population" should really have a source to back it up.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#139

Post by sofal »

Prrometheus wrote: post #127
sofal wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sense that some of the disagreements that I have with Paul Graham are deeply fundamental and have to do with the fabric and meaning of our existence. First of all, I'm a religious person. This I have seen immediately qualifies me for ridicule from some on a forum such as this, as believing in God is seen as the logical equivalent to believing in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. If you think I am totally deluded be…

>f you think I am totally deluded because of my beliefs, I would ask that you at least show respect for the fact that I am devoted to them and value them sincerely. Belief qua belief does not deserve respect. That is a self-serving myth told by believing people.

How about civility? That's kind of like respect. Do I "deserve" any civility? If it's a myth and a self-serving lie to think that you should show respect for other people's beliefs, count me as one of the self-serving liars.

Re: Lies We Tell Kids

#140

Post by asnyder »

meredydd wrote: post #25
asnyder wrote: post #19

Besides being a woman, Marie Curie was the first and ONLY person to ever recieve a Nobel Prize in different sciences. Something her male counterparts have yet to do, so maybe there's something there besides her sex.

Indeed - Curie was most definitely "the shit", and that shouldn't be taken away from her. However , it is also almost certainly true that she was taught because she was female. Now, I'm not entirely sure that's a bad thing. I would, in fact, suggest an addition to PG's categories of lies: "Making kids think things are easier than they are". No-one knows better than PG, living in the start-up world, that Big Things ar…

"However, it is also almost certainly true that she was taught because she was female"

This is actually not the case. In fact, she was repeatedly denied entry into universities and had to fight especially hard for any education or appointments that she recieved.

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