Ask HN: How do you fix engineering culture? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: How do you fix engineering culture?

#131

Post by lee-jon » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 12:56 PM UTC

thrwwyngnr wrote: post #109

Oras wrote: post #98

My advice would be to set expectations and have a clear roadmap. I agree with comments who identified the lack of leadership. The point of setting the expectations might solve a bit of "we are moving too slow/too fast". The arguments from both teams that you mentioned are valid because it sounds to me there were no expectations or clear vision of the final product. An example of setting expectations would be: - We ha…

Sounds like a great plan to solve the "too fast/slow" problem. It is true that some teams in engineering work with an MVP mindset, while others work in a waterfall/enterprise pace. Maybe it's up to upper-management and C-levels to iron this out.

> Maybe it's up to upper-management and C-levels to iron this out.

Always.

Re: Ask HN: How do you fix engineering culture?

#132

Post by amirathi » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 1:58 PM UTC

If you focus on increasing engineering quality, retention will follow.

> there's still an astounding number of bug reports for a simple app.

Why don't you reverse engineer some of these bugs and see how & when they were introduced. What step in your development workflow should have caught those?

> The development process is indeed slow and full of fail-safes

I have seen engineers who focus on less meaty stuff in code reviews (language semantics, coding conventions, naming etc) and miss out on system design, regression, logical mistakes etc. Former takes less mental effort & is limited in it's usability while latter takes time/energy but is worth the price. See if this is happening in your organisation.

> how they actively engage in bickering and in-fighting between their own teams

My guess is some of your engineers are less focused on product/features/customers and more on the stack/technology/tools they are using. I don't know how to change this (lead by example maybe?).

Re: Ask HN: How do you fix engineering culture?

#133

Post by dangerface » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 2:28 PM UTC

Sounds like a communication / planning problem. What is your process of planing and carrying out a project and are those processing being properly carried out?

It sounds like the engineering team don't have a clear vision of what they are supposed to build. This leads to them building the wrong thing. The people who wrote the initial brief don't see a problem with it but do see the engineering team struggle with the project, not knowing how to explain their vision they resort to micro-management.

Having a non engineering person trying to manage an engineering problem at a micro level will result in all the problems you describe. The developers are missing the big picture and will have to guess, redevelop, then test it on the non-engineering person, repeat until they say yes. This introduces bugs and tones of useless code.

Re: Ask HN: How do you fix engineering culture?

#134

Post by dangerface » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 2:44 PM UTC

shanghaiaway wrote: post #66

elmerfud wrote: post #2

To me, what your describing is a management deficiency. My first guess would be you lack highly skilled engineers at all levels of management in your company. This is a common oversight in tech companies to not consider that people at all levels of the company should be skilled in engineering. If this guess is wrong then the rest of the post doesn't apply. If you were starting a chain of restaurants you wouldn't hire…

Every employee is expected "to be able to fill out reports, spreadsheets, provide data metrics, understand the work place harassment polices, health care benefits, present in team meetings, etc.." Engineers are not special.

You wouldn't expect a receptionist to be able to do the job of an engineer why would you expect an engineer to be able to do the job of a receptionist?

Expecting every employee to be good at every job is just dumb.

Re: Ask HN: How do you fix engineering culture?

#135

Post by dyeje » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 2:45 PM UTC

This post is a bit vague to give any real advice. Best place to start would probably be the exit interviews. Fix the problems that made them leave. I'd also start taking look at the engineering leadership. Ideally, someone should be having frequent one on one meetings with the engineers to prevent problems getting to the point where someone quits.

Re: Ask HN: How do you fix engineering culture?

#136

Post by qualsiasi » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 9:22 PM UTC

Matthias247 wrote: post #94

zepolen wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know over three engineers who left their companies because of the stringent bureaucracy expectations, filling out reports and the like. It was boring to them. They all got new jobs within a week. Unlike other positions, for engineers, it's the companies that are replaceable, not the employees. Engineers are special whether we like it or not.

> Unlike other positions, for engineers, it's the companies that are replaceable, not the employees. I read that a few times in this thread, but I'm not sure whether it's as true as pictured here. Maybe in some bubble environments (bay area and Seattle). But for most of us other engineers there isn't necessarily the next employer around the corner - even for those with exceptional skills.

So Italy is in the bubble :) Good to know

So many positions for sw. engineers and so little experienced professionals to fulfill all those job openings, at least in my zone.

Re: Ask HN: How do you fix engineering culture?

#137

Post by Mc_Big_G » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 9:49 PM UTC

IpV8 wrote: post #4

Some of the social issues are difficult to address without extensive insider knowledge of your particular company and culture. Some easy outsider advice though is the 'Joel test'. Written in 2000, its a bit out of date, but there are more modern versions of it floating around the internet (such as the one that follows). Basically it is a checklist for a good development environment. In my experience it is fine to mis…

This list needs automated testing added to the top.

Re: Ask HN: How do you fix engineering culture?

#138

Post by wj219 » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 11:35 PM UTC

Obviously the first question to address is whether you are offering truely competitve pay, that should be addressable with some research and leg work.

The second, harder thing to look at is whether you are encouraging a culture where people can give honest feedback without fearing repercussions. While there may be a myriad of reasons you are receiving from employees on the way out, it is useless to try to respond to that feedback: you've already lost those people.

People leave jobs for tons of different reasons. Some are in your control, some are personal. There are some reasons you should address, and some you should just let go. What matters is that you address the ones you can before it's too late.

Re: Ask HN: How do you fix engineering culture?

#139

Post by whb07 » Wed, Jan 02, 2019, 11:54 PM UTC

ohazi wrote: post #114

shanghaiaway wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you're in a filter bubble. Can't have good engineering without good management.

> Can't have good engineering without good management. This is not even remotely true.

One could have a “good” engineer but the engineering team/dept/section will be lackluster. A strong engine without a rudder is meaningless and vice versa.

There is a reason why leadership of teams/section/department etc has the responsibilities and accordingly higher pay.

Re: Ask HN: How do you fix engineering culture?

#140

Post by quickthrower2 » Thu, Jan 03, 2019, 1:52 AM UTC

> We're currently big in consulting, but we've been trying to move into SaaS.

There might be a clue there. Consultant type people have a different way of thinking to developers. They want to solve clients problems and solve them quickly. They might be less focused on things that are about investing for the future, such as paying down technical debt. They might be more "just get it done".

The engineers might be more focused on building a solid platform going forward. The difference in tempo between engineering teams may be a result of their focus, e.g. "core architecture" vs. "urgent features/fixes" so maybe look at that.

I don't have answers, just more questions you can consider.

Paying more is the short term fix. If someone with a family would lose money by leaving they might consider staying longer unless the environment is so bad (bullying etc.) that they feel they have to leave.

I'd probably set up a 1-1 (with 99% listening, 1% talking) with as many people as you can, everyone in your team(s) plus quite a few people in other team, write it all down, sleep on it and see what you can figure out.