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Why American cities are weirdly shaped

economist.com

131–140 of 173 posts

Re: Why American cities are weirdly shaped

#131
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My understanding is that a city boundary in the US is a big deal. The police force on either side can be completely different, things that can get you in a lot of trouble like gun laws can be different on either side, prices and taxes can be very different. The biggest thing that changes is the school district. City schools tend to be worse than suburban counterparts, and that completely drives a cities ability to r…

That's a contributing factor, but unlikely the decisive one. Some city schools are excellent, and business case for a private or a charter school is stronger in a city. There's also wider availability of various after-school programs. There's the space concern for those who wouldn't mind a backyard and a pet or two, safety concern associated with letting the kids just play outside, transportation concern as far as ef…

The data suggests otherwise.

http://www.washington.edu/news/2015/10/07/new-uw-report-pain...

Re: Why American cities are weirdly shaped

#132
post #68

My understanding is that a city boundary in the US is a big deal. The police force on either side can be completely different, things that can get you in a lot of trouble like gun laws can be different on either side, prices and taxes can be very different. In the UK a city boundary doesn't really mean anything. There might be a nice 'Welcome to X' sign but nothing really changes as it would in the US. I'm not even s…

It can depend on the particular U.S. State. It's sometimes useful for non-Americans to think of the U.S. like a federation of weak semi-autonomous countries. Each state more or less runs their own affairs unless there's some federal interest in which case the national interest overrides the state one. What this means for this topic is that states organize their territories in sometimes different ways that can seem so…

> In fact, in Connecticut, a city is located within a town and is subordinate to it! Towns may set their own general method of local governance but are subordinate to their counties and then to their state.

Connecticut doesn't actually have county government. Counties are just a way of roughly collecting towns together.

Re: Why American cities are weirdly shaped

#133
post #113
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wouldn't you agree that state and local governments mostly act within the bounds defined by the federal government? I agree that the Federal government trumps the State government, but I'm not sure that I envision it as "bounds defined by" and more as whenever the random walk of the Federal government intersects with a more local one, the Fed wins. There are plenty of areas that the Federal government can't be both…

They're not the same though. Even though Americans consider their state identities to be strong and unique, if you look at how states are generally organized in the old world, its generally by ethnicity, language or some other very strong form of strong shared identity. So while a person from California and Texas might be very different, the difference is likely much smaller than b/w a French person and a German pers…

>if you look at how states are generally organized in the old world, its generally by ethnicity, language or some other very strong form of strong shared identity.

While true, it is important to remember that this is a 19th/20th century type thing. Germany became unified around cultural/ethnic lines in 1871 (in France! so much of world war one was about the fallout from the wars of german unification, just like so much of the wars of german unification were fallout from the Napoleonic wars.) Italy became unified around cultural/ethnic lines in like 1860.

Before this, the individual "german" states were not politically unified in any sort of way; they all belonged to whatever multi-ethnic empire invaded them last, and they were more likely to war with oneanother than, say, with France.

My point here is that ethnic nationalism looks like the old-world default today, but this is a fairly recent thing.

Re: Why American cities are weirdly shaped

#134
post #68

My understanding is that a city boundary in the US is a big deal. The police force on either side can be completely different, things that can get you in a lot of trouble like gun laws can be different on either side, prices and taxes can be very different. In the UK a city boundary doesn't really mean anything. There might be a nice 'Welcome to X' sign but nothing really changes as it would in the US. I'm not even s…

It can depend on the particular U.S. State. It's sometimes useful for non-Americans to think of the U.S. like a federation of weak semi-autonomous countries. Each state more or less runs their own affairs unless there's some federal interest in which case the national interest overrides the state one. What this means for this topic is that states organize their territories in sometimes different ways that can seem so…

"It's sometimes useful for non-Americans to think of the U.S. like a federation of weak semi-autonomous countries." That would be helpful if it would be true. In old' Europe a the equivalent of a county or city does not have any power to enact and enforce legislation, all the laws are country-wide and enforced by the national police; the only local law enforcement is for parking and minor (no criminal record) misdemeanors. From what I know many counties in US have the power to regulate areas that can be felonies if disobeyed (like gun regulations), something like that is unbelievable around here.

Re: Why American cities are weirdly shaped

#135

For totally different reasons, Moscow, the capital of Russia, has recently acquired a magnificently weird shape after annexing a huge tract of land shooting out roughly in the southern direction (nos. 11 and 12 on this map [1]). In Russia, city and region boundaries are important, but Moscow city limits are insanely important in terms of pensions, taxes, schools, and healthcare (it's much better to be inside than out…

Huh, I wonder if this means the subway map is going to look like a figure-8 soon.

Re: Why American cities are weirdly shaped

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suburbs used to be regularly annexed into cities; in some places they still are. This stops being the norm when desegregation occurs. Now that all races must be allowed to mix in schools, businesses and housing, whites flee to the suburbs, put up giant financial barriers in the form of zoning, and refuse to be annexed. These days overt racial politics is now dogwhistled as concerns about crime or undesirables or cult…

Concerns about crime, undesirables, or culture are real, and taxes. They are neither inherently racial nor dog whistles, but are only so because of how American history shook out along racial lines. You are inverting cause and effect here.

>how American history shook out along racial lines.

Your comment is contradictory. On the one hand you say that crime, who is undesirable, and culture ate incidental and have nothing to do with race and then in this sentence you acknowledge that American history was largely determined by race, although you use very passive language as though that "shaking out" was some benign, incidental process instead of the cruel and brutal system it was.

Re: Why American cities are weirdly shaped

#137
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how Japanese work culture is supposed to be a result of their city designs.

It's a result of Japan environment (not only natural), they are too much and too concentrated as a result they can't live relaxed, they can only stress themselves. Few that born or arrive to a "comfort position" tend to exceed in any behavior, others whip themselves to the extreme. That's why we read about people who die working too much, who close themselves in their room for months or years, they use big load of an…

> too concentrated

Paris has a higher population density than Tokyo, and that's with about half of the city's area taken by parkland.

Re: Why American cities are weirdly shaped

#138
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a contributing factor, but unlikely the decisive one. Some city schools are excellent, and business case for a private or a charter school is stronger in a city. There's also wider availability of various after-school programs. There's the space concern for those who wouldn't mind a backyard and a pet or two, safety concern associated with letting the kids just play outside, transportation concern as far as ef…

The data suggests otherwise. http://www.washington.edu/news/2015/10/07/new-uw-report-pain...

The data suggests what it carefully chooses to suggest.

Here's a list of top 50 cities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b... It does not include Baton Rouge, Chula Vista, Chandler, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Fort Wayne, etc.

You can sort of see why - without Chula Vista, Chandler, Stockton, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Toledo or Raleigh this thesis https://www.crpe.org/examples/six becomes much more muted.

It also measures public schools exclusively, ignoring the fact that urban communities are predominant attractors of private and charter schools - their business model makes less sense in suburbs or rural environment.

Re: Why American cities are weirdly shaped

#139
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can depend on the particular U.S. State. It's sometimes useful for non-Americans to think of the U.S. like a federation of weak semi-autonomous countries. Each state more or less runs their own affairs unless there's some federal interest in which case the national interest overrides the state one. What this means for this topic is that states organize their territories in sometimes different ways that can seem so…

"It's sometimes useful for non-Americans to think of the U.S. like a federation of weak semi-autonomous countries." That would be helpful if it would be true. In old' Europe a the equivalent of a county or city does not have any power to enact and enforce legislation, all the laws are country-wide and enforced by the national police; the only local law enforcement is for parking and minor (no criminal record) misdeme…

I think the post was referring to states, not counties, when referring to "countries".

Re: Why American cities are weirdly shaped

#140
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wouldn't you agree that state and local governments mostly act within the bounds defined by the federal government? I agree that the Federal government trumps the State government, but I'm not sure that I envision it as "bounds defined by" and more as whenever the random walk of the Federal government intersects with a more local one, the Fed wins. There are plenty of areas that the Federal government can't be both…

I agree that the Federal government trumps the State government, but I'm not sure that I envision it as "bounds defined by" and more as whenever the random walk of the Federal government intersects with a more local one, the Fed wins. Even that isn't always true. In many notable cases (marijuana, gay marriage, segregation) states openly defied the federal government and the federal government let things stand because…

Depends on what you mean by defy.

What often gets lost in political debate is that there is Federal law enforcement and then there is State law enforcement. For the purposes of the US Constitution, local law enforcement is State law enforcement, even if a given State might draw a distinction themselves. It is helpful to remember that the US Constitution is architected to recognize three types of entities: US Government, States, and foreign governments. Off the top of my head I couldn’t tell you if it groups tribal governments into foreign governments or distinguishes them from those categories, but for the purposes of this conversation they’re closer to States than to foreign governments.

So whether you have counties, boroughs, townships, incorporated cities, school districts, water boards, parishes, independent cities, consolidated cities and counties, villages, capital territories or completely unorganized territory; none of this matters looking from the top down because those are all part of the “States”, and Federal law doesn’t really have to care about those details. As long as there is some kind of work organization there, the Feds can work with them, make agreements and negotiate with whoever has jurisdiction over whatever in whichever State.

What this also means is that States and/or their (for the purposes Federal convenience) subordinate entities can make laws and enforce them according to their own constitutions, laws and general policies, and the Federal government has its own parallel set of laws, courts, law enforcement officers, prisons and policies. Parallel, not higher. Your local police department is paid out of your local government’s budget, not out of the Federal budget.

So let’s take one of your example’s up there: marijuana. As far as the State of California or Washington is concerned, weed is fine. They aren’t going to spend money raiding pot farms, they’re going to tax them. According to their laws, it is generally legal for medicinal and recreational use, so you will not be arrested by a State law enforcement officer, dragged off to a State court and stuffed into a State prison for possession, use, sale or purchase provided proper procedures are observed.

The Feds though? They might still do all of that in this completely parallel legal system over here though. They can’t change* California or Washington law, but residents in these States are still subject to Federal law.

Well what about marriage? Well while Congress has the power to regulate substances offered for sale in this country, commerce clause and all that, the Constitution doesn’t say anything about giving Congress or the President license to determine what is and isn’t a lawful marriage in any of the States. According to the 10th amendment, this is clearly reserved for the States since it is a civil issue not specifically reserved for Congress. So unless you can twist the commerce clause to somehow cover marriage, then Congress doesn’t really have a say. No, this didn’t stop all 535 of them from sharing their opinions the very second Gavin Newsom issued that first same-sex marriage certificate, but that was about the extent of what they could do. All of the real debate was largely contained to internal State politics and about the most a Congressional candidate could give was their opinion.

What about the Defense of Marriage Act? Here’s where it got only slightly tricky, at least until it was determined to be unconstitutional anyway. Actually that’s pretty much the end of it: it was determined to be unconstitutional. While the States determine who can be married, Congress has given the Federal government the power to offer certain benefits including tax benefits to married couples, which is fine, and DOMA essentially barred same-sex married couples from receiving these benefits, and granted States license to ignore same-sex marriage certificates issued by other States which they would otherwise be obliged to recognize under some other clause of the Constitution.

Then SCOTUS struck down Section 3, later Section 5 and rendered Section 2 a casualty in the process. Basically the system worked as designed, even though it was law for close to twenty years.

It is fair to say, that when Federal law and State law are in conflict, Federal law does trump State law in most cases. What gets missed is that the Federal government must enforce Federal law. It can get States to help, by coercion or agreement, but sometimes that doesn’t work. That’s why Sanctuary City/State laws can also exist: the States are charged with enforcing their own laws without any expectation of assistance from the FBI or ICE, and it goes both ways: FBI and ICE have to be able to enforce immigration and other Federal laws, with or without assistance from any State they are operating within because something like immigration is explicitly under the jurisdiction of the Congress and Federal government. Sometimes there is a societal conflict, or values conflict, but unless there is a legal conflict, none of that actually matters to the Constitution and by extension, SCOTUS.

tl;dr: States/local govs employ their own law enforcement and enforce State/local laws. The Feds employ their own Federal law enforcement to employ Federal law. Neither actually works for the other, but rather in parallel and it is largely up to their discretion when and if to cooperate.

* The Feds sometimes make grants for very specific agreements, generally if they want a special kind if cooperation they have to pay for it, but otherwise your police compensation packages come out of your local budget.

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