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How the Dreamcast Copy Protection Was Defeated

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Re: How the Dreamcast Copy Protection Was Defeated

#131

Post by smacktoward »

larrik wrote: post #125
laumars wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What ultimately did it in was the PS2 -- a superior console in virtually every respect I beg to differ. Graphically it was, but it should be given it was two years younger. Sound quality it was too but honestly very few people would have noticed on the typical set up of that era. However the Dreamcast has 4 controller ports built into the console itself, rumble packs from day one, a portable gaming unit (ok, that w…

AS I remember it, the mindshare of the PS2 even so long before launch was immense. Sony's marketing killed the Dreamcast with ridiculous promises that really didn't pan out. You can't just look back and compare the systems, the idea of the PS2 killed the DC.

Yep. A good example was the branding of the PS2's processor as the "Emotion Engine," (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion_Engine) which in the runup to release got hyped as some kind of fundamental breakthrough in computing that would let the PS2 render things like faces with so much detail they'd be able to break your heart. This was all bunkum, of course, but it ensured that all the media oxygen got sucked into debates about how amazing the PS2 was going to be when it eventually shipped, instead of talking about consoles like the Dreamcast that you could buy right then.

Of course, Sega pretty much invented this PR game with the Genesis and "blast processing" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Genesis#North_American_sa...), so in that respect they were kind of hoist by their own petard...

Re: How the Dreamcast Copy Protection Was Defeated

#132

Post by monocasa »

laumars wrote: post #127
larrik wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AS I remember it, the mindshare of the PS2 even so long before launch was immense. Sony's marketing killed the Dreamcast with ridiculous promises that really didn't pan out. You can't just look back and compare the systems, the idea of the PS2 killed the DC.

I don’t recall Sony marketing the PS2 that heavily compared to the DC (nor even the Xbox). But memory can be fallible. The argument I was proposing was that the mindshare was in anticipation of the PS2 because of how the PS1 vs Saturn war panned out. Gamers can be loyal pack animals and Sega had already lost their fan base before the DC was even released thanks to the success of the PS1. > Dreamcast with ridiculous p…

Sony did all sorts of marketing stunts to keep the idea of the PS2 in the limelight. They spread stories about how Iraq was trying to buy them for their weapons program because they were so powerful, etc.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/12/19/iraq_buys_4000_play...

Re: How the Dreamcast Copy Protection Was Defeated

#133

Post by monocasa »

wolfgke wrote: post #91
atVelocet wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it really was. Sega and Microsoft worked closely together or why do you think they implented the Windows CE option? Also all Sega arcades afterwards shipped with Xbox hardware.

Windows CE was ported to a lot of processor architectures at that time. Its architecture is quite different from the Windows NT line. To quote Wikipedia on this > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Windows_Embedded_... "Unlike Windows Embedded Standard, which is based on Windows NT, Windows Embedded Compact uses a different hybrid kernel." I am also pretty sure that Windows CE's architecture is quite differen…

You can quote me, as I've gotten down and dirty with the Xbox ( https://github.com/monocasa/xbvm ), and have written board support packages for CE for work.

The OG Xbox kernel is an extremely heavily stripped down and modified Win2k kernel. No support for user mode, multiple address spaces, or more than one running process. No win32 in the kernel. USB, sound, and the vast majority of the graphics driver are statically linked into the process executable.

Re: How the Dreamcast Copy Protection Was Defeated

#134

Post by batty_alex »

jandrese wrote: post #110
dsco wrote: post #6

Related and _very_ inspiring; how the Sega Saturn CD was cracked after 20 years. Even my very non-technical girlfriend sat through this thing, being intrigued by the dedication. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOyfZex7B3E

Did the Saturn hold out for so long only because nobody cared enough to crack it? The Saturn was stillborn as far as I can tell. Sega rushed it to market to try to recapture that early Genesis magic and discovered too late that launch titles/partners are important.

Here's what I remember from the history of it all:

The Saturn was Sega's best-selling console outside of Japan. It did terribly in America, mostly because they screwed-over retailers and developers with a surprise early release. Some retailers would straight-up not carry it, American third-party support was pulled, and this all carried forward to the Dreamcast. Sega of Japan was undermining Sega of America and there's a whole tragic story behind it. The Sega of America CEO, who helped the Genesis be successful in the US, quit over this nonsense.

As far as not hacking it, it was so easy to mod the CD drive to play back-ups (1 wire and a ribbon cable) - there probably wasn't much incentive.

Re: How the Dreamcast Copy Protection Was Defeated

#135

Post by kibwen »

andrewmackrodt wrote: post #106
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I helped my sister find DC downloadable games. And unfortunately, 95% of all the games available were 1-on-1 fighting games. The few others were simulators (Crazy Taxi, flying games). The only RPG I can think of was Phantasy Star Online. It was down for at least a decade when we downloaded games. I look at PlayStation, and it was RPGs galore. And while there was shovelware, there were all sorts of games from every ge…

If you're interested in picking up some DC RPGs today for nostalgia I would recommend Skies of Arcadia and Grandia 2, the latter did some to PS2 though.

And amusingly, the former is arguably better experienced via its enhanced Gamecube port (Skies of Arcadia Legends).

Re: How the Dreamcast Copy Protection Was Defeated

#136

Post by karlgrz »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #95
bliblah wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The first is piracy probably didn’t lead to the failure of the Dreamcast. They didn’t sell many of the consoles The dreamcast was forward thinking in many ways (Built in Modem, MMO console games, 3D graphics that could rival arcades) but the lack of a real system selling game was very noticeable. > if it was a piracy issue then you’d expect they’d sell many consoles, but few games This is very true, every time I go…

I helped my sister find DC downloadable games. And unfortunately, 95% of all the games available were 1-on-1 fighting games. The few others were simulators (Crazy Taxi, flying games). The only RPG I can think of was Phantasy Star Online. It was down for at least a decade when we downloaded games. I look at PlayStation, and it was RPGs galore. And while there was shovelware, there were all sorts of games from every ge…

Skies of Arcadia. One of the best ever made.

Re: How the Dreamcast Copy Protection Was Defeated

#137

Post by karlgrz »

andrewmackrodt wrote: post #106
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I helped my sister find DC downloadable games. And unfortunately, 95% of all the games available were 1-on-1 fighting games. The few others were simulators (Crazy Taxi, flying games). The only RPG I can think of was Phantasy Star Online. It was down for at least a decade when we downloaded games. I look at PlayStation, and it was RPGs galore. And while there was shovelware, there were all sorts of games from every ge…

If you're interested in picking up some DC RPGs today for nostalgia I would recommend Skies of Arcadia and Grandia 2, the latter did some to PS2 though.

Grandia 2 was awesome, I completely forgot about that. The original was really good, as well.

Re: How the Dreamcast Copy Protection Was Defeated

#138

Post by ErneX »

new299 wrote: post #20

There are two points to note. The first is piracy probably didn’t lead to the failure of the Dreamcast. They didn’t sell many of the consoles... if it was a piracy issue then you’d expect they’d sell many consoles, but few games (the line up of games was really good). The article mentions Ikaruga a lot. It worth noting that Ikaruga for the Dreamcast was released a year after the Dreamcast was cancelled. They probably…

Agreed, the hype for the upcoming PS2 was enormous, and on the Dreamcast 3rd support side, the absence of Electronic Arts was a huge blow.

Re: How the Dreamcast Copy Protection Was Defeated

#139

Post by nesyt »

laumars wrote: post #127
larrik wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AS I remember it, the mindshare of the PS2 even so long before launch was immense. Sony's marketing killed the Dreamcast with ridiculous promises that really didn't pan out. You can't just look back and compare the systems, the idea of the PS2 killed the DC.

I don’t recall Sony marketing the PS2 that heavily compared to the DC (nor even the Xbox). But memory can be fallible. The argument I was proposing was that the mindshare was in anticipation of the PS2 because of how the PS1 vs Saturn war panned out. Gamers can be loyal pack animals and Sega had already lost their fan base before the DC was even released thanks to the success of the PS1. > Dreamcast with ridiculous p…

Parent meant that Sony marketed the PS2 with undelivered promises.

Re: How the Dreamcast Copy Protection Was Defeated

#140

Post by paulie_a »

alxlaz wrote: post #25
Ntrails wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, and maybe I'm mis-remembering, how many people were actually active netizens at this point in history, able to find the ISO? Thinking back to when the dreamcast was a big console - I don't feel like it was common enough to really make a dent in dreamcast owners? Also, and again only from vague memory, wasn't the dreamcast itself underselling drastically. If it was game sales that broke the manufacturer then mayb…

> how many people were actually active netizens at this point in history, able to find the ISO? One active netizen with a CD writer was enough for an entire school :-). I don't know what impact this had over sales. Back then (~2001, 2002) I knew people who bought a Dreamcast precisely because they could get cheap games.

My last class in highschool was study hall. I sold a ton of bootlegs and took orders from classmates and even teachers. Made about 50 dollars a day after costs.
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