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I’m Chinese, Google’s DragonFly Must Go On

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Re: I’m Chinese, Google’s DragonFly Must Go On

#131

Post by KayL »

The DuckDuckGo is not an option if Google is the only good search engine for you. Bing.com is working in China but the 551,615,600 peoples given up.

Yahoo Search is powered by Bing. If you looking at Hong Kong & Taiwan data. It still a quite amount of people using them. It's enough for them for their daily lives. Why not in China?

The tech person who using VPN in China. Have you ever tried to advice 551,615,600 peoples in China to use cn.bing.com?

You already have an option like DuckDuckGo that you suggested in the article.

For most people in China, Google is a luxury brand more than useful.

The remaining 250,384,400 peoples. Your first step isn't fighting for DragonFly in China but flight for Hong Kong & Taiwanese Celebrities can tell you where they from without the word "China" in the TV show.

Re: I’m Chinese, Google’s DragonFly Must Go On

#133

Post by Markoff »

publub wrote: post #69

I'm really glad someone with a Chinese background finally spoke up about this. If you look at the anti-DragonFly post, you'll notice that there are almost no Chinese names on the list. Every Chinese citizen I've talked to is pro-DragonFly, myself included. DragonFly will probably be the largest step to democratizing information that has ever happened for the Chinese people. It's a huge step forward. It won't change t…

what stops them from using Bing?

you are naive if you think crippled Google would change anything, lived in China plenty years to know better, majority would be ambivalent and it would be used only by people who wanna look cool

Re: I’m Chinese, Google’s DragonFly Must Go On

#135

Post by nickyoung123 »

jldugger wrote: post #75

> If Google were in China, perhaps the young man named Wei Zesi would not have died as a result of deadly fake medical advertisements searched through Baidu. As the wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Wei_Zexi makes clear, those medical adverts were not fake. They were certainly deadly. They were also run by the Second Hospital of the Beijing Armed Police Corps. A state owned hospital. On what ba…

Why don't you simply admit that you just don't give a shit about anyone using somewhat info from some website and die? You just don't care about it.

You just don't care. He died and it's his own fault, right? You should say it loud.

Re: I’m Chinese, Google’s DragonFly Must Go On

#136

Post by andrewflnr »

pas wrote: post #130
andrewflnr wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These Googlers' conscience is telling them that collaborating with a repressive regime's repression is wrong. OP is asking them to collaborate anyway. QED, honestly. I know the intent is what you've outlined, but I'm saying that's not as important, here anyway, as the conscience angle.

This is probably a mismatch of ethics. Some are deontologists (say no to collaboration on principles) some are consequentialist/utilitarian. However it's hard to assess the long term effect of this on Google and other Google users. That's the real question. Okay Google builds DragonSpy. Okay, please make it work for Vietnam too says Vietnam, then me too says Putin, Venezuela, Iran, Turkey and so on. As long as dictat…

It's more than that. Deliberately creating the environment where people ignore their conscience is always a huge mistake, beyond the particular issue. As a species, we need to be paying more attention to our consciences, not less.

Re: I’m Chinese, Google’s DragonFly Must Go On

#137

Post by unityByFreedom »

publub wrote: post #93
jldugger wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every Chinese citizen I've talked to is pro-DragonFly, myself included. Why would a Chinese citizen who was anti-dragonfly out themselves?

China suppresses free speech, yes. But it doesn’t go so far as citizens being terrified of being known as someone wanting Google to enter China. It’s not like 1984. The secret police isn’t going to come stick you and your family in an underground prison for wanting Google. People are pretty open about what they want. Google is something many people (who know about it) want. FWIW, yes, I could be propaganda. But if I…

> The secret police isn’t going to come stick you and your family in an underground prison for wanting Google.

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with what happened recently to bookstore owners in Hong Kong. Or people who "stir up trouble" by criticizing the government on WeChat.

Funny that you mention underground prisons, because they are a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_jails

Re: I’m Chinese, Google’s DragonFly Must Go On

#138

Post by KayL »

publub wrote: post #85
sexy_seedbox wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this will be an entirely positive change that could save millions of lives A censored search engine will save millions of lives? Reads like propaganda to me. > DragonFly will probably be the largest step to democratizing information Democratized information... with Chinese characteristics.

> A censored search engine will save millions of lives? Reads like propaganda to me. What in the world does censorship have to do with this? Information will strictly be more available by having Google in China, than not having Google in China. Google is orders of magnitude better than Baidu, which makes not even a superficial attempt at hiding that it censors and reranks information. DragonFly will simply not allow…

> As to why I think it’ll save lives. Let me give you an example. I once tried to search for the US consulate in China on Baidu. The phrase for that is “美国领事馆”. Try it on Baidu. When I last searched it, the website for the consulate was on the 3rd or 4th page, the address was nowhere on Baidu, and the rest of the results were travel agencies trying to make a profit.

I'm not in China but the Baidu show the related information (ustraveldocs.com) on the first result. To search "suicide", you've got the telephone for help.

I don't know why you selected “美国领事馆” while similar issues happened in China. Google's DragonFly will block it too. If you search "香港政府", you get the best on the first result.

> and the rest of the results were travel agencies trying to make a profit.

It's smarter than Google! People in China are trying to escape at the time. Baidu shows a more accurate result base on the trend. It works like the Yahoo or newspaper's homepage.

Re: I’m Chinese, Google’s DragonFly Must Go On

#139

Post by CathayRe »

publub wrote: post #69

I'm really glad someone with a Chinese background finally spoke up about this. If you look at the anti-DragonFly post, you'll notice that there are almost no Chinese names on the list. Every Chinese citizen I've talked to is pro-DragonFly, myself included. DragonFly will probably be the largest step to democratizing information that has ever happened for the Chinese people. It's a huge step forward. It won't change t…

I fully understand this and would have been Pro DragonFly a few years before. Now that I have learned more, I am against it. And this post is possibly a ploy from China.

Why should Google join China, give away its IP one way or another, let CCP exerts its force on more Western Companies, and further strengthen its power in China and the world?

Does anyone has the slightly idea what the hell is going on inside CCP's mind? I wish the WTO had a new terms for anyone joining, the nation must allow democratic election after joining WTO. There is no such thing as free market in a one party system.

You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.

Re: I’m Chinese, Google’s DragonFly Must Go On

#140

Post by wrs »

darawk wrote: post #113
wrs wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say that "authoritarian policies" is a deceptively weak phrase for the stuff China is doing lately. In any case this reasoning is flawed -- the correct analogy to "China has authoritarian policies but pulled billions of people out of poverty" would be "the United States had slavery but populated a continent while creating wealth for millions of people". So the story of slavery is " much more mixed".

> I have to say that "authoritarian policies" is a deceptively weak phrase for the stuff China is doing lately. Sure, call it what you want. I'm no fan of the Chinese government. > In any case this reasoning is flawed -- the correct analogy to "China has authoritarian policies but pulled billions of people out of poverty" would be "the United States had slavery but populated a continent while creating wealth for mill…

The analogy is getting out of hand, but the question here is more like making ankle trackers for the slaves than making cotton gins.
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