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There is more to high house prices than constrained supply

economist.com

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Re: There is more to high house prices than constrained supply

#131
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not just a question of loans. Schools can always discount prices down to what people can pay. So, they charge families making twice as much more money each year.

It's insane what schools can get away with for price discrimination. Remember the uproar over Orbitz (and others) price discrimination based on Mac/iOS usage? [1] Schools have been doing the same thing in broad daylight for years and years with far greater consequence, basing their price on your parent's income levels.* And near zero public blowback. It's confusing. * This is all done through school scholarships, but…

It’s an informal social program. The rich subsidize everyone else.

Re: There is more to high house prices than constrained supply

#132
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, we could be in for a lot of pain if inflation and interest rates rise over the coming years.

"Yes, we could be in for a lot of pain if inflation and interest rates rise over the coming years." This is true, but I think unlikely ... All macro trends - especially demographics and birthrates - point to large deflationary headwinds. The little bit of inflation that we experience currently is the result of massive manipulations like quantitative easing and related policies. Just look at the price of oil ... even…

> Nobody can know how this will pan out, but I think a reasonable guess is that as QE is allowed to unwind we experience recessionary forces that we are no longer willing to accept or able to withstand - given the increased fragility and interconnectedness of our economies. And so we will see QE3 and QE4 and so on, with related ZIRP[2], until we finally see a deflationary collapse.

It seems like the flaw is in the assumption that QE be required to "unwind" at all.

When the fed creates/destroys money, there are at least two things it can do with it. One is to buy/sell treasury bills, the other is to lend more/less to banks (who use it to make loans to consumers).

We currently have two problems: 1) too many loans to consumers, 2) too many outstanding treasury bills. So why doesn't the Fed set a near-zero interest rate for treasury bills but a higher interest rate for banks? That keeps them from having to destroy the money entirely and cause deflation to get consumer debt back to a rational level, while at the same time removing treasury bills from the market and reducing the interest rate the taxpayer has to pay on the outstanding debt -- solving both problems at the same time.

The result would be for the Fed to hold trillions in treasury bills indefinitely, but so what? The "harm" is that it allows Congress to borrow money more cheaply. That seems like a benefit provided they don't abuse it to the point of causing too much inflation -- which certainly doesn't appear to be happening in practice. The debt numbers would continue to grow on paper, but if it's all just going to be held by the Fed using created money, and the amount of money being created isn't causing hyperinflation, are we not good?

Re: There is more to high house prices than constrained supply

#133
post #9

The price of houses is driven by market rents compounded with access to financing. If lenders are willing to finance an investment with 3% yield, then house prices will jump to 33x their annual rent value - it goes without saying that's only possible in low interest markets. The rent itself however is controlled by supply and demand - there needs to be a real person there earning a paycheck and he must have no other…

> The rent itself however is controlled by supply and demand No, it's not. Folks have got to stop using simplistic remedial high school economics classes to explain complex social problems. They just aren't that simple. During the 2008 financial implosion, a single investment company called Blackstone Group went on a buying spree around the US. As of this time last year, they owned, through a subsidiary company, full…

> they can claim the lost rents -- at the prices they set -- as taxable deductions

Can you provide a source? This doesn't seem right. A vacant unit produces no revenue, but the "lost rent" doesn't constitute an expense.

Re: There is more to high house prices than constrained supply

#134
post #9

The price of houses is driven by market rents compounded with access to financing. If lenders are willing to finance an investment with 3% yield, then house prices will jump to 33x their annual rent value - it goes without saying that's only possible in low interest markets. The rent itself however is controlled by supply and demand - there needs to be a real person there earning a paycheck and he must have no other…

> The rent itself however is controlled by supply and demand No, it's not. Folks have got to stop using simplistic remedial high school economics classes to explain complex social problems. They just aren't that simple. During the 2008 financial implosion, a single investment company called Blackstone Group went on a buying spree around the US. As of this time last year, they owned, through a subsidiary company, full…

Investors invest because they believe there will be a good return. A drastically increasing ratio of people to homes can’t not drive up prices in a way that will deliver that return.

Sure there are many factors at play, interacting with each other in strange ways. But there is no amount of complexity that will let you settle 100 families in 10 houses.

Re: There is more to high house prices than constrained supply

#135
post #51

Home prices vary inversely with interest rates. Here's how that works: 1) person tells bank they'd like a mortgage to buy a house. 2) banker asks for info on income, expenses, etc. 3) banker estimates persons maximum monthly payment. 4) banker figures out max loan amount based on #3 5) buyer is encouraged by everyone to spend the full amount from #4 Everyone - the seller, their agent, your agent, the bank, and maybe…

It's crazy how this isn't more common knowledge that the Economist needs to write an article about it. We're also seeing the same thing recently with tuition prices. There is more money available for student loans so schools just jack up the tuition to meet the supply of money available.

It drives me crazy that people don’t see the very simple reason why tuition has risen so much: student loan debt is not dischargable through bankruptcy. Even if the student is run over with a bus the debt can be passed on to family members.

The lenders that give out these loans therefore have essentially no risk and are highly incentivized to give out loans to any and every person that wants one, regardless of their creditworthiness or future earning potential. Universities have responded to this glut of money and demand by raising prices.

The solution is to allow student loans to be discharged through bankruptcy. Banks will respond by properly evaluating the risk of each loan instead of giving them out like candy. This will result in less students going to college, but that’s a fair price to pay to correct this massive distortion in the market.

Re: There is more to high house prices than constrained supply

#136

Home prices vary inversely with interest rates. Here's how that works: 1) person tells bank they'd like a mortgage to buy a house. 2) banker asks for info on income, expenses, etc. 3) banker estimates persons maximum monthly payment. 4) banker figures out max loan amount based on #3 5) buyer is encouraged by everyone to spend the full amount from #4 Everyone - the seller, their agent, your agent, the bank, and maybe…

> Home prices vary inversely with interest rates.

This is true if all else is equal. In theory, however, the Fed is supposed to raise interest rates when the economy is heating up, which implies buyers are being paid higher salaries, which implies their income (step 2 of your chain) is higher. In theory this could neutralize some or all of the effect of the interest rate increase.

Re: There is more to high house prices than constrained supply

#137
post #68
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy how this isn't more common knowledge that the Economist needs to write an article about it. We're also seeing the same thing recently with tuition prices. There is more money available for student loans so schools just jack up the tuition to meet the supply of money available.

That’s not just a question of loans. Schools can always discount prices down to what people can pay. So, they charge families making twice as much more money each year.

imho the only way to correct the cost of higher education is to limit what the federal government will loan per credit hour by course. many don't seem to have a problem with government dictating how much a medical procedure will be paid so lets apply that to education.

you can damn well bet you will entire degrees built around the limits if they were in place. put it down to this course is worth X per credit and this degree is worth X amount and requires a set of course credits that will have loan money available.

as to the article in question, one variable was missing. buyers won't accept homes and features that they can easily afford but are influenced by TV and other forms of marketing let alone the old keeping up with the Jones

Re: There is more to high house prices than constrained supply

#138
post #77
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy how this isn't more common knowledge that the Economist needs to write an article about it. We're also seeing the same thing recently with tuition prices. There is more money available for student loans so schools just jack up the tuition to meet the supply of money available.

I read an article where they did a supply/demand analysis of tuitions, and found that tuitions might simply be responding to demand. Obviously, there are a lot of factors to consider. But they looked at broader economics for demand (jobs, unemployment) and existing college sizes (instructor and class volume) and found that pricing were correlated with supply/demand changes, with loans playing only a minor role in edu…

That demand was artificially created by the government disallowing the discharge of student loan debt through bankruptcy.

Re: There is more to high house prices than constrained supply

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are more than happy to let some percentage of their properties remain empty rather than decreasing rental prices, because they can claim the lost rents -- at the prices they set -- as taxable deductions. How is it that a tax deduction can offset the opportunity cost of leaving a property vacant? Or does it only offset the cost of what the unit would actually rent for at rates that naturally clear the supply/de…

> How is it that a tax deduction can offset the cost of leaving a property vacant? I can't comprehensively answer this, because I'm not in the business and those that are, are tight-lipped about it. But it's definitely a contributing factor to high rates of empty storefronts [1]: “If these landlords have deep pockets and large property portfolios, it may make more financial sense to claim a tax loss on vacant propert…

Foreign-ness of the investment capital may be important to the perceived moral valence if the transaction, but money is money.

The strategy of squatting on vacant property is essentially patience. For it to pay off, you do have to eventually rent it out (or sell it) when you think prices are high enough. For example, if you have deep enough pockets you might move during a recession, but wait until the recession is over to sell your old house, because you get a better price. If you never sell it, you’re tying up capital for no reason. The higher interest rates are, the more you’re losing in opportunity cost by owning a vacant building. Patience has probably been especially abundant in this decade of historically low interest rates.

Since no tax rate is 100%, a writeoff is never as good as a profit. It only softens the blow, which might extend the landlord’s patience in waiting for rents to cycle back up to $2800.

Another thing that happens is the project’s financing is contingent on a certain average rent, but the contract doesn’t factor in $0 rent empty units, just leaves them out of the calculation. This is essentially a bug. It’s one reason landlords give signing bonus concessions instead of just lowering the rent.

In markets seeing runaway costs, vacancy is at historic lows. No one is investigating this too thoroughly because fixing it wouldn’t be very fruitful.

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