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Sprint Is Throttling Skype, Study Finds

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Re: Sprint Is Throttling Skype, Study Finds

#131

Post by acdha »

cortesoft wrote: post #61
HatchedLake721 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it actually different tariffs or do they offer free “social” data? If they do offer it, that’s not against net neutrality unless they throttle other traffic.

I think zero rating is considered a violation of net neutrality by most people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-rating

One problem is that “zero-rating” isn't as well defined as network neutrality and there are two forms of service we see:

1. Network operators exempting an entire class of service, such as T-Mobile's “Music Freedom” which has the same terms for everyone who applies 2. Network operators accepting money from specific service providers to exempt only those services, such as the Facebook-only service offered in some parts of the world

Most people consider the second form a problem since it heavily favors large companies, especially since a less-favored company doesn't even have the guarantee of being able to reach a deal at all, but opinions vary more about the first and a lot of advocates have either inadvertently or deliberately confused the issue. I'm choosing to see that advocacy as well-intended but I think it's alienated a lot of people who really don't see a problem with the first form (at least as long as it's really open) but would agree to bans on the second.

Re: Sprint Is Throttling Skype, Study Finds

#132

Post by Tor3 »

hycaria wrote: post #120
Tor3 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I'm in Japan and want to talk with my insurance company, bank, or airline over on the other side of the world, there's just one way: A phone number. Which is the (main) reason I'm still using Skype. There are other, and sometimes better, alternatives for video/chat/group chats/photos etc. But still nothing that competes with Skype's phone support, although Skype in general has degenerated a lot since the early d…

What about regular phone, landlines and stuff + email for pictures and so on ? This alternative still exists afaik. Some telecom companies even have offers for calling abroad if you move a lot.

International call rates.

Recently this has been unified throughout Europe, including removing roaming charges for data, but calling from/to outside Europe is still very expensive. Even sending text messages (and receiving, which is normally free) is expensive. Thus Skype. And it's also cool to have a Skype-in number in Japan[1], which will be forwarded to your Skype account wherever you are, or to your phone if you're offline (if so configured). That's nice when you have very old family members who prefer to use a (local) phone call to get in touch. So Skype covers some use cases which I can't easily cover by other means. For the "normal" communication which doesn't involve a phone I mostly use other tools nowadays though.

[1]With the restriction that Japan only allows Skype-in numbers if you're a resident.

Re: Sprint Is Throttling Skype, Study Finds

#133

Post by gcb0 »

otoburb wrote: post #128
sonnyblarney wrote: post #99

Tip of the iceberg. Carriers see communication services as their turf, and they go to byzantine lengths to protect that. Politically it can get funny. If you work at a handset manufacturer, and sit in on sales calls, and one of your team members brings up anything remotely related to this or VOIP, you might see the carrier buyers get visibly upset and literally walk out of the room. I could never tell if they were 'a…

>> If you work at a handset manufacturer, and sit in on sales calls, and one of your team members brings up anything remotely related to this or VOIP, you might see the carrier buyers get visibly upset and literally walk out of the room. Is your anecdote over a decade old? That may have happened to a much weaker extent before IMS[1] carrier deployments became widespread, and before the consolidation of the Android an…

> deacade old

> apple got halfway in 2015 and google started to roll over it in 2017

> samsung still show a permanent "calls over wifi" notification

I think "over a decade" may be a stretch for non-google/apple, unfortunately.

Re: Sprint Is Throttling Skype, Study Finds

#134

Post by daveFNbuck »

tzs wrote: post #123
cortesoft wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think zero rating is considered a violation of net neutrality by most people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-rating

I think that this is one of the main reasons that it is harder than it should be to convince average people in the US, especially on the political right, that we need net neutrality. Take the plan I'm on with T-Mobile. I pay a fixed monthly amount and get 3 GB of data per month. If I go over 3 GB, T-Mobile reserves the right to give me lower speed for the rest of the month. T-Mobile has a thing called "Music Freedom"…

This is a great deal if you're one of the heavier music streamers. Everyone's paying for more than 3 GB, and people who try to use it for things other than music streaming get throttled earlier.

Re: Sprint Is Throttling Skype, Study Finds

#135

Post by sonnyblarney »

otoburb wrote: post #128
sonnyblarney wrote: post #99

Tip of the iceberg. Carriers see communication services as their turf, and they go to byzantine lengths to protect that. Politically it can get funny. If you work at a handset manufacturer, and sit in on sales calls, and one of your team members brings up anything remotely related to this or VOIP, you might see the carrier buyers get visibly upset and literally walk out of the room. I could never tell if they were 'a…

>> If you work at a handset manufacturer, and sit in on sales calls, and one of your team members brings up anything remotely related to this or VOIP, you might see the carrier buyers get visibly upset and literally walk out of the room. Is your anecdote over a decade old? That may have happened to a much weaker extent before IMS[1] carrier deployments became widespread, and before the consolidation of the Android an…

"see communication services " - not just VOIP.

Carriers will fight tooth and nail, 2018 and long beyond for anything related to data, voice, texting, essentially anything services related.

The bulk of their revenues at least are still made up of 'voice packages'. Do you think that they are just going give that up?

They will fight any handset maker on this - and by the way apps, and search.

Tooth and nail, balls to the wall an only Apple can basically do as they please.

They'll try to negotiate a cut of VOIP revenue, they'll demand that such apps cannot be preloaded, they'll demand a cut of search revenues from Google. They'll demand a cut of app store revenues. Or demand that their own app stores be installed.

Anything voice, data or services oriented they want a cut of.

" but carriers definitely did see the writing on the wall and prepared for the cannabilization of their voice revenue for quite some time."

They are not - moreover, there are 10's of billions to be made in the meantime as voice wanes - moreover, I think we'll see regular voice services with 'phone numbers' for a very long time yet.

Consider net neutrality - it's an attempt by carriers to undercut major players and demand more revenue for QoS etc..

No, it's a huge, huge turf war. One of the biggest 'open wars' in business because the fault lines are always changing whereas in most other industries there are many norms and practices that have developed between different layers of the value chain that have stabilized over time.

Between carriers, handset manufacturers ... it's blood.

Re: Sprint Is Throttling Skype, Study Finds

#136

Post by cortesoft »

tzs wrote: post #123
cortesoft wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think zero rating is considered a violation of net neutrality by most people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-rating

I think that this is one of the main reasons that it is harder than it should be to convince average people in the US, especially on the political right, that we need net neutrality. Take the plan I'm on with T-Mobile. I pay a fixed monthly amount and get 3 GB of data per month. If I go over 3 GB, T-Mobile reserves the right to give me lower speed for the rest of the month. T-Mobile has a thing called "Music Freedom"…

Right, but what happens when they start raising the prices for non-zero rated content? Or when they start zero-rating everything except their competitors services?

In the end, zero-rating is the exact same as charging more for some content.

This is like the difference between charging $0.95 for something with a $0.05 credit card fee versus charging $1.00 and giving a $0.05 discount for cash customers.

The only difference is the messaging.

Re: Sprint Is Throttling Skype, Study Finds

#137

Post by fjsolwmv »

zuisan wrote: post #100
oarsinsync wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then how do I get the ISP to advertise my service as being free to use, the same way they do for Facebook? It's not much help that my clone is also free to use if nobody knows unless they go hunting through the fine print, as the initial assumption will be that it's a charged-for alternative.

Obviously your ISP is not going to advertise ALL social apps, that would be a huge list. As an example take this: https://www.vodafone.es/c/particulares/es/productos-y-servic... "use all your social network apps without using up your data allowance", and then they show you a list of apps, but all social apps should be zero-rated and if they are not you can report it. Same with video apps, music apps, etc. If you thin…

Chrome is my social app. I use it to browse FB and Hacker News and exchange mail. Can I get it zero rated for 3 bucks? I expect not.

Re: Sprint Is Throttling Skype, Study Finds

#138

Post by driverdan »

rhexs wrote: post #20
aberoham wrote: post #17

My Zoom meetings via CenturyLink have become progressively worse since Net Neutrality bit the dust. Anyone else feel the same?

I've had Centurylink for years (fiber and DSL) and they consistently seem to throttle most video sites. Netflix/youtube has always been hit or miss. If you ask about this on reddit or dslreports you immediately get shills claiming that they would never do that / it's impossible. Weird. Using a VPN always fixes the issue.

It's not throttling, it's bad peering. Their links to video services get saturated.

Re: Sprint Is Throttling Skype, Study Finds

#139

Post by tzs »

cortesoft wrote: post #136
tzs wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that this is one of the main reasons that it is harder than it should be to convince average people in the US, especially on the political right, that we need net neutrality. Take the plan I'm on with T-Mobile. I pay a fixed monthly amount and get 3 GB of data per month. If I go over 3 GB, T-Mobile reserves the right to give me lower speed for the rest of the month. T-Mobile has a thing called "Music Freedom"…

Right, but what happens when they start raising the prices for non-zero rated content? Or when they start zero-rating everything except their competitors services? In the end, zero-rating is the exact same as charging more for some content. This is like the difference between charging $0.95 for something with a $0.05 credit card fee versus charging $1.00 and giving a $0.05 discount for cash customers. The only differ…

> Right, but what happens when they start raising the prices for non-zero rated content? Or when they start zero-rating everything except their competitors services?

This should raise antitrust issues. The competitors could sue under antitrust law to stop the practices and get damages, or the government could handle enforcement, or both.

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