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Sundar Pichai: ‘Technology Doesn’t Solve Humanity’s Problems’

nytimes.com

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Re: Sundar Pichai: ‘Technology Doesn’t Solve Humanity’s Problems’

#131

Post by ucaetano »

andrepd wrote: post #109
ucaetano wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google was enabling the DoD to be more efficient at killing people The world is complicated, and things are never as simple as that. Would you consider drones and smart bombs bad when the alternative is carpet bombing? It is always too easy to ignore the world as it is and focus on a utopian case. War will happen, with whatever tools are available.

>Would you consider drones and smart bombs bad when the alternative is carpet bombing? Because there are more courses of action other than "drone strike" and "carpet bombing".

> Because there are more courses of action other than "drone strike" and "carpet bombing".

Indeed, but those courses aren't always available, and war will happen in the way war happens.

If not, your argument isn't about drones, it is about pacifism. That's like saying "I'll magically lift everyone out of the way" in the trolley problem. Sure, it is a nice thought, but it is not an answer to the question.

I'll ask again: if the only two options were carpet bombing and smart bombs, which one would you choose?

Don't run away from the question.

Re: Sundar Pichai: ‘Technology Doesn’t Solve Humanity’s Problems’

#132

Post by craftyguy »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #108
craftyguy wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could, but the primary reason it was developed was to generate a lot of energy to kill as many people as possible.

Then be very careful to not extend the negativity over the entire field of nuclear physics. Atomic bomb is a very specific weapons technology. Mastery of fission and physics at atomic scale does great good already - from energy to medicine - and holds potential for even more.

> Then be very careful to not extend the negativity over the entire field of nuclear physics

I never did, perhaps you are replying to the wrong person? I was just pointing out that creating the atomic bomb was a very negative thing. Even though other many other fields in nuclear physics came about because of the bomb's development, there's nothing that says they couldn't have come about without developing an atomic bomb in the first place.

Re: Sundar Pichai: ‘Technology Doesn’t Solve Humanity’s Problems’

#133

Post by PhasmaFelis »

darawk wrote: post #113
Forbo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted. Perhaps the inclusion of the absolutist "every drone strike... ever". But this raises a valid concern. Is drone striking weddings really winning the hearts and minds of people, or is it just setting up the next generation of (IMO, justified) hate toward the US? [0] [1] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wech_Baghtu_wedding_party_airs... [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Has…

Do you believe that those outcomes were the intent of the person that authorized these missions?

It doesn't matter.

Adults are expected to understand the potential consequences of their actions. If you knowingly fire missiles into a populated area, you don't get to say "oops, I didn't mean to" when you accidentally kill a few dozen innocent civilians.

Re: Sundar Pichai: ‘Technology Doesn’t Solve Humanity’s Problems’

#134

Post by craftyguy »

tomatotomato37 wrote: post #128
craftyguy wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's pretty much no problem that given a large thoughtful effort, technology has not solved. Technology has failed over and over to provide an accountable, verifiable, and secure election process.

Technology != Computers Mass producable pens and paper, decent locks, and nationwide logistic networks have made elections accountable, verifiable, and secure decades ago.

> Technology != Computers

In this context (an article written by Google's CEO, about technology on computers), it arguably does.

By being pedantic, you might as well extend technology to everything up to, and including creating fire and making very basic hand tools. The article clearly isn't about that.

Re: Sundar Pichai: ‘Technology Doesn’t Solve Humanity’s Problems’

#135

Post by craftyguy »

dumbfoundded wrote: post #117
craftyguy wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's pretty much no problem that given a large thoughtful effort, technology has not solved. Technology has failed over and over to provide an accountable, verifiable, and secure election process.

No it hasn't. Paper works great. So great in fact, many security experts recommend returning to a paper backup system (1). The reason we don't have a secure election process is because no one with the power to do anything has any incentive to fix it (a bit of an over-generalization). (1) https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/05/opinions/to-keep-our-votes-sa...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18408717

Re: Sundar Pichai: ‘Technology Doesn’t Solve Humanity’s Problems’

#136

Post by nafey »

craftyguy wrote: post #96
defterGoose wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"it's quite difficult to think of a beneficial application of the atomic bomb, and thus, very difficult to justify its invention from a moral/valued standpoint." Large, efficient explosives in space is an obvious one. We will need to crack open asteroids to mine them or blow one up so it doesn't collide with something eventually. I hope.

> blow one up so it doesn't collide with something eventually. The one thing worse than a large asteroid heading for you is dozens of medium-sized ones and thousands of small ones all heading for you.

This is often repeated but I doubt if this is true. There will be more surface area exposed to the atmosphere for one. Notice that this falls apart if you end up dividing it in millions of smaller pieces

Re: Sundar Pichai: ‘Technology Doesn’t Solve Humanity’s Problems’

#137

Post by landryraccoon »

Tyrek wrote: post #71
darawk wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's your belief that not taking action would be better?

Are you certain that every drone strike that's ever been made has had a positive impact on the world?

I write code, and I'm quite certain that not every line of code written has had a positive impact on the world.

Re: Sundar Pichai: ‘Technology Doesn’t Solve Humanity’s Problems’

#138

Post by dwaltrip »

Tyrek wrote: post #71
darawk wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's your belief that not taking action would be better?

Are you certain that every drone strike that's ever been made has had a positive impact on the world?

Most statements that attempt to characterize every single instance of a phenomenon are heavily flawed, regardless of what they say. Especially in complex systems, such as those involving humans.

It seems to me that your question is coming at this from the wrong angle.

Re: Sundar Pichai: ‘Technology Doesn’t Solve Humanity’s Problems’

#139

Post by nsedlet »

discoball wrote: post #12
Kurtz79 wrote: post #7

To put the title into context: "Do you still feel like Silicon Valley has retained that idealism that struck you when you arrived here?" "There’s still that optimism. But the optimism is tempered by a sense of deliberation. Things have changed quite a bit. You know, we deliberate about things a lot more, and we are more thoughtful about what we do. But there’s a deeper thing here, which is: Technology doesn’t solve h…

> Google was enabling the DoD to be more efficient at killing people and China to be more oppressive until its workers protested. So he's right about humanity having to solve its problems but he's forgetting that Google, the corporation, is opting to make it harder for humanity to solve its problems by enabling those who do not have humanity's best interest in their heart.

Agreed. Perhaps this is an unfair reading, but it feels like the implication is that if there aren't technological solutions to problems, then technology companies don't play an important role in those solutions.

But Google has so much power to help, and in fact is better-positioned than almost any organization to help - and in fact has a duty to do so given that it helped create the problems. For instance, Youtube is one of the biggest sources of propaganda and uncivilized discourse there is.

Re: Sundar Pichai: ‘Technology Doesn’t Solve Humanity’s Problems’

#140

Post by mLuby »

virmundi wrote: post #115
discoball wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google was enabling the DoD to be more efficient at killing people and China to be more oppressive until its workers protested. So he's right about humanity having to solve its problems but he's forgetting that Google, the corporation, is opting to make it harder for humanity to solve its problems by enabling those who do not have humanity's best interest in their heart.

You're making an assumption about best. What is best? Is it personal liberty within the confines of enough law to provide some semblance of stability? The US is straining with that and it is arguably the most free of the Western Nations. Before the EU apologists jump on, keep in mind the EU Human Rights Court ruled that no one is allowed to speak against Mohamed ( https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/european-co…

Ensuring your citizens are safe, fed, housed, and healthy is the bare minimum for any government (Looking at you, SF). "Peace, land, bread", you know?

But any time an entity is afraid to be challenged, it is selfishly choosing its own survival over the possibility that there exists a better provider for its citizens. That part is the "not best" part, and it's also the part Google is accused of helping with. If Google was secretly working with the PRC to improve Chinese citizens' medical care, there wouldn't be any concern.

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