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Sales mistakes that software engineers make

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Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#131

Post by fuball63 »

phkahler wrote: post #83
fuball63 wrote: post #56

I fall into the "Build before talking to customers" trap constantly. Even though I know it's "wrong", it is hard to escape it because of the simple problem of not knowing who to talk to. The article suggests doing a search for potential companies, finding contacts on linkedin, and sending out some emails. But what about experimental technologies or developer tools? I wouldn't expect a lot of success with a slow movin…

>> I have found a little success going to meetups and talking in person to other developers and entrepreneurs... Perhaps you need to go to meetups with potential customers instead of other developers.

The problem is that what I'm building is a function as a service platform, a general development tool. So developers/managers are the target audience. I think it's a matter of finding the “BANT” (budget, authority, need, timeline) requirements the article mentions.

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#132

Post by fuball63 »

nicolashahn wrote: post #71
fuball63 wrote: post #56

I fall into the "Build before talking to customers" trap constantly. Even though I know it's "wrong", it is hard to escape it because of the simple problem of not knowing who to talk to. The article suggests doing a search for potential companies, finding contacts on linkedin, and sending out some emails. But what about experimental technologies or developer tools? I wouldn't expect a lot of success with a slow movin…

> there's no way to search "startups using x" for a generic technology, like serverless or NoSQL. Smells like a side project waiting to be built.

I have thought of getting on BuiltWith, AlternativeTo, and StackShare. There's probably a way to find small companies doing this (and the job posting tip, which is interesting) but I haven't been as proactive as I could be, I guess.

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#133

Post by fuball63 »

maxlybbert wrote: post #94
fuball63 wrote: post #56

I fall into the "Build before talking to customers" trap constantly. Even though I know it's "wrong", it is hard to escape it because of the simple problem of not knowing who to talk to. The article suggests doing a search for potential companies, finding contacts on linkedin, and sending out some emails. But what about experimental technologies or developer tools? I wouldn't expect a lot of success with a slow movin…

Steve Blank’s book “Four Steps to the Epiphany” has advice on getting those contacts (and stories of people who finally asked “if we gave this to you for free, would you use it?” only to be told “no”).

Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out.

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#134

Post by lbotos »

nobody271 wrote: post #112
bambax wrote: post #24

> Sales Mistake #1 - Building Before you Start Selling (...) If you’re wrong, you’ll save time and money by not building something people don’t want. I fell into this trap often, so I know it well. The reason why we don't ask first is, we want to build something . Anything. If we're "wrong", we won't "save" time and money, we will delay the moment we start making, maybe indefinitely. What if we never find something p…

Well how is my audience supposed to know what I have to offer until they have it in front of them? Before that it's just me telling them an idea. Even after it's done I would not expect users to start using it on their own. Then you have to play a whole different game of getting people to use it.

A few years ago I wanted to make a niche marketplace to sell/trade tabletop miniatures. Instead of actually building the thing, I made a few mockup interfaces pages, and then just made a responsive HTML page. None of the buttons actually worked. I then put a modal that said "launching soon, sign up now for news and a special bonus on launch".

I spent $100 on ads on reddit and targeted forums with the goal to get 100 emails. If I got 100 emails, I would actually try and build the thing.

I got ~57.

You can market very far without anything that works. This is the "growth hack/MVP" mindset. I saved myself weeks of programming which would have been fun, but arguably a waste to building that specific business.

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#135

Post by fuball63 »

mkirklions wrote: post #69
fuball63 wrote: post #56

I fall into the "Build before talking to customers" trap constantly. Even though I know it's "wrong", it is hard to escape it because of the simple problem of not knowing who to talk to. The article suggests doing a search for potential companies, finding contacts on linkedin, and sending out some emails. But what about experimental technologies or developer tools? I wouldn't expect a lot of success with a slow movin…

>I fall into the "Build before talking to customers" trap constantly. Even though I know it's "wrong", it is hard to escape it because of the simple problem of not knowing who to talk to. There isnt necessarily a 'right way' to do things. I have received terrible advice from marketing/business people. Showing people my MVP was fine for some customers, but others didnt trust me based on a low quality landing page. Whi…

I spend a lot of time reading stuff, but I'm starting to think that what I really need is just confidence and persistence.

I'm learning more and more that with many things in life, everything is a gray area. Trying to distill something as complex as success into a ruleset is impossible.

Your story about the MVP is what makes me nervous; it's good to hear that there is some wiggle room when it comes to the MVP impressing or flopping.

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#136

Post by loarake »

I want to echo point #2 about listening rather than talking. When I first pitched my work to radiation therapy vendors at big conferences, I was expecting a kind of adversarial exchange to take place where I'd have to defend my software against cynical people trying to find its flaws, shark-tank style.

Instead I found that vendors were dying to tell me what they need and what's important for them. I quickly realised that the most important part after giving my pitch was to basically ask tons of questions about what they think is important and why. The vendors' answers were invaluable in honing my pitch for other vendors, but also to steer the direction of my project.

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#137

Post by jcadam »

bambax wrote: post #24

> Sales Mistake #1 - Building Before you Start Selling (...) If you’re wrong, you’ll save time and money by not building something people don’t want. I fell into this trap often, so I know it well. The reason why we don't ask first is, we want to build something . Anything. If we're "wrong", we won't "save" time and money, we will delay the moment we start making, maybe indefinitely. What if we never find something p…

True. Especially when I build something that solves one of my own problems. I think it's great and maybe others would like it too.

Then I discover that amongst all of humanity, I have problems which are absolutely unique and shared by no one else, anywhere.

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#138

Post by naasking »

bambax wrote: post #24

> Sales Mistake #1 - Building Before you Start Selling (...) If you’re wrong, you’ll save time and money by not building something people don’t want. I fell into this trap often, so I know it well. The reason why we don't ask first is, we want to build something . Anything. If we're "wrong", we won't "save" time and money, we will delay the moment we start making, maybe indefinitely. What if we never find something p…

It's not irrational. People often don't know what they want, or think they know but often devise overly elaborate solutions. Also, building before asking means you can potentially create a new market with a new product that's never been seen before, which is far more lucrative.

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#139

Post by darkerside »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #129
jeremyjh wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all very true and relevant, yet still its also true that we see lots of stories from founders regretting that they never established market fit before sinking years into development. This is probably the pattern for 90% of indie game developers, but it crops up in other contexts as well. Once they finally know they are at the end of that road to nowhere, they do have regrets, and they have had other ideas in…

Is it possible to do indie game dev without building something and throwing it out there? Small games seem like a market where it's nearly impossible to know what's going to sell ahead of time, because buyers don't know what they want until they see it. Or until a lot of people are telling them it's the Next New Thing. It's relatively easy to research a market where you're offering a practical solution to a real prob…

Adding to that, there is an entertainment component to almost everything these days. People like Turbo Tax because it makes it easier, and a little bit closer to fun, to do your taxes.

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#140

Post by cosinetau »

ptero wrote: post #63

This is a very good post. I am in special agreement with #2 (on listening). However, #1 for me is not quite right. Selling before building anything may backfire as your prospects could see you as an airhead selling vaporware. "OK, this tech looks useful, but so is anti-gravity. Show me that it is buildable and that your team can build it quickly." One way to allay such concerns is to have a quick prototype that (on a…

Right, but, you'll tell a new customer you will have the product ready for them quickly, but because you didn't have a stakeholder that would, you're running the risk trying to sell them a product that wouldn't solve their particular problem (feature mismatch).

Maybe if you believe the limits of technology would be a blocker to solving your customer's vision of their problem, then a prototype before you have a stakeholder that would compensate you somehow is probably the right answer.

But I think you can easily confuse the business objectives with engineering objectives in making the assumption that the prototypical solution is representative of the customer's vision of the solution.

It's not that I think you or a business can't live with that dissonance, I think it may open you up to that problem.

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