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How the Finnish survive without small talk

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Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#131

Post by Balgair »

illuminati1911 wrote: post #7

(I’m a Finn) I didn’t know what small talk was until I went to study abroad. Most of my foreign classmates often asked me things like ”how are you doing?” etc. and when I literally answered them what I had been up to recently they were very confused. ”Dude...no need to tell your life story, just say ’good’ and that’s it” I replied ”Why do you ask a question if you don’t care about the answer?” I learned the hard way,…

Semi-related: My uncle grew up speaking Gaelic and learned English in his later teens and has become a successful musician, doing a lot of touring. He mentioned to me, over a few glasses, that the language of the US is Sports, not English. The doormen at hotels, the roadies, the servers in restaurants, the cashiers, the flight attendants, other musicians, etc. all of them 'spoke sports.' In his experience, if you started talking about the Lakers'/Broncos'/Red-Wings'/local-teams' most recent game, you'd get an instant connection with that person (and therefore a much better experience). He made it a point, while on the road, to watch the ESPN highlights back at the hotel, to have something to talk about with valets, cashiers, while standing in line, etc. For my uncle, it made road-life a LOT easier and more friendly.

So, in most of the US at least, remember that small talk can be made easier by talking recent sports news.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#132

Post by lionhearted »

I was in Helsinki two years ago and loved every minute of it. I said to an American friend at the time, "I don't know why, but this is a great city to think in."

This article helps explain it — there's less idle conversation, yes, but when conversing, it's actually much easier and straightforward to talk about deep and interesting things. And if you want to be quiet and just think, people are cool with that too.

It's really a lovely place. Very clean and beautiful, too. Very much worth visiting.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#133

Post by eternalban »

flurdy wrote: post #111

Norwegian living in the UK. I remember my dad when he moved over here just found the whole initial greetings and small talk with his UK colleagues really funny. And even funnier to watch his mostly Swedish colleagues struggle with the same tennis ball banter at the start of every conversation. Instead of just getting to the point straight away. I was young enough to adapt quickly, but still I struggle with insincere…

   HELO flurdy
   WTF personal space!
:)

Small talk is a protocol. There is information exchange. Possibly the Finns are trying to out do the machine but even machines agree small talk is necessary :)

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#134

Post by Balgair »

koevet wrote: post #117

I'm married to a Finn woman and I have lived in Helsinki for about 3 years. The lack of small talk is the norm in Finland, and, as a south-european, it takes a while to get used to. The article doesn't mention that there is a noticeable difference between boys and girls though. My experience is that girls are much more willing to engage in small talk in social situations. Men, including colleagues, can be really diff…

The old 'peach vs. coconut' cultural modes: https://x-culture.org/peach-vs-coconut-cultures/

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#135

Post by robocat »

unstuckdev wrote: post #100
bluetomcat wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The constant chit-chat is at the surface of this phenomenon, it's the general hyperactivity of Americans that strikes me as an eastern European. Always moving around restlessly while holding a drink, overacting and commenting after any kind of trivial situation around them, something that most people would not care about at all.

I call those people annoying. I was born and raised and have lived my entire life in the US. I'm quiet, still, and prefer the same in the people around me. You can't assess over 300 million people by the few who can afford to travel.

One issue is that we generally notice the loud obnoxious stereotype, and there are enough Americans that fit that mould.

And perhaps you are discounting that many people make their own judgement call based on the interactions they have had with Americans.

I am not sure it has much to do with tourists per se. On the gripping hand, I am in Palma de Mallorca at the moment, which many Europeans travel to for the beach and party life: there are some definite stereotypes for the Poms and the Germans!

Every visitor faces bigotry, some fair, some unfair.

American's can get plenty of positive reaction too. At least most people have some idea about your country and customs from watching movies: try coming from a third world nation...

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#136

Post by SilasX »

vlehto wrote: post #122
SilasX wrote: post #99

Random thought: I can't find it, so how do they translate the intro to Return of the Jedi? Moff Jerjerrod: Lord Vader. This is an unexpected pleasure. We are honored by your presence. Darth Vader: You may dispense with the pleasantries, Commander. I am here to put you back on schedule. Is Jerjerrod's line something they wouldn't say? Would it be confusing that someone would need to tell someone to skip the pleasantri…

Finns know that phrase. Just like Americans know the words "your majesty" despite not having any royals. Finns use it exactly in same way as American would say "your majesty". It would likely be a sarcastic remark coming from a Finn. So the meaning is not that far off.

Yeah, but even then I assume they would want a deeper translation that made the scene more natural to Finns -- where the Moff wouldn't say something that looks like small talk, nor have Vader recognize something as being "pleasantries". Like, have the Moff immediately get to giving status reports, and then have Vader respond with disbelief and say he's behind schedule.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#137

Post by f_allwein »

Balgair wrote: post #131
illuminati1911 wrote: post #7

(I’m a Finn) I didn’t know what small talk was until I went to study abroad. Most of my foreign classmates often asked me things like ”how are you doing?” etc. and when I literally answered them what I had been up to recently they were very confused. ”Dude...no need to tell your life story, just say ’good’ and that’s it” I replied ”Why do you ask a question if you don’t care about the answer?” I learned the hard way,…

Semi-related: My uncle grew up speaking Gaelic and learned English in his later teens and has become a successful musician, doing a lot of touring. He mentioned to me, over a few glasses, that the language of the US is Sports, not English. The doormen at hotels, the roadies, the servers in restaurants, the cashiers, the flight attendants, other musicians, etc. all of them 'spoke sports.' In his experience, if you sta…

"Did you see that ludicrous display last night?" https://youtu.be/6yN2H3--1aw

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#138

Post by ebiester »

illuminati1911 wrote: post #7

(I’m a Finn) I didn’t know what small talk was until I went to study abroad. Most of my foreign classmates often asked me things like ”how are you doing?” etc. and when I literally answered them what I had been up to recently they were very confused. ”Dude...no need to tell your life story, just say ’good’ and that’s it” I replied ”Why do you ask a question if you don’t care about the answer?” I learned the hard way,…

There's more nuance in the greeting than at first glance, based on social distance.

Implicit in the question is, "How much are you looking to talk?" and "how close do you feel to the person asking?"

Also encoded is my expectation of conversation. If I say it casually or to a group, I am expecting a casual response. If I slow it down and emphasize "Are" or "You", I'm providing subtext that I am expecting a longer conversation or are genuinely interested in a longer conversation that can dive into more personal matters. If I know someone isn't doing well (death in the family, etc), it can slow down but not have the increased pitch of the other greeting, inviting knowledge that we're already past that.

When responding, I have the opportunity to interrupt the normal flow in both polite and impolite forms. All of this is highly contextual so that the "simple" answer is to say "Good, and you?" but there's subtext to learn.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#139

Post by kirkules »

eternalban wrote: post #133
flurdy wrote: post #111

Norwegian living in the UK. I remember my dad when he moved over here just found the whole initial greetings and small talk with his UK colleagues really funny. And even funnier to watch his mostly Swedish colleagues struggle with the same tennis ball banter at the start of every conversation. Instead of just getting to the point straight away. I was young enough to adapt quickly, but still I struggle with insincere…

HELO flurdy WTF personal space! :) Small talk is a protocol. There is information exchange. Possibly the Finns are trying to out do the machine but even machines agree small talk is necessary :)

Are you saying TELNET is necessary because it is a protocol?

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#140

Post by anthk »

buboard wrote: post #44
anthk wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spain is not a single-mind culture, FFS. From the Rainy and cold North to the Sunny South and the inner -wastel^U field landscapes, there is a huge difference. You can't put in the same mindset a celtic Galician, a Basque marine/IT guy, a Catalan media artist and a Castille Historian. Stop dividing Europe in North/South, in the end there is more like a scaled rainbow even inside countries.

i don't know i can tell by the tone of your writing you re spanish and i totally agree that people are not stereotypical, but that goes mostly for the very recent generations. The world is heading to monoculture fast, yet when people talk about cultures, they refer to culture that is mostly expressed by the dwinding majority(?) of middle-aged people.

Maybe in the US, trust me that when you met Spaniard people in place instead across the Internet your opinion changes a lot. Most Spaniard regional countries have a very strong identity since the Middle Ages, and a lot of them before even Rome.
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