Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours • Hacker News Board

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#131

Post by wahern » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:14 AM UTC

TylerE wrote: post #126

wahern wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of 737's have had explosive depressurization with injuries or fatalities, most recently this year https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43818752 and one of the most famous incidents (in the U.S.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243 Both were from fatigue, but fatigue doesn't have to be a gradual thing; it could come from a single hit that causes the pressure vessel to fail at altitude. S…

The difference is that happens at altitude . When the plane has just taken off there is no pressure differential. There’s no energy TO explode.

Damage can be less severe than an actual puncture of the pressure vessel. Damage can weaken the pressure vessel such that it only fails (possibly explosively) once under pressure.

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#132

Post by wahern » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:18 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #116

wahern wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of 737's have had explosive depressurization with injuries or fatalities, most recently this year https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43818752 and one of the most famous incidents (in the U.S.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243 Both were from fatigue, but fatigue doesn't have to be a gradual thing; it could come from a single hit that causes the pressure vessel to fail at altitude. S…

And yet, it landed!

Indeed, but the two previous posters were discussing counter-factuals.

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#133

Post by TheOtherHobbes » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:22 AM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #46

lavrov wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a pilot, and not trying to be an armchair pilot, but why would he have ascended all the way to 36000 feet? Isn't there a real risk of depressurization with hull damage?

No. If there was a leak then it wouldnt pressurize properly on the way up. If it was holding pressure, it would probably keep doing so.

"probably"

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#134

Post by TheOtherHobbes » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:24 AM UTC

gandutraveler wrote: post #127

Why is there a brick wall so close to runaway?

Because most pilots can fly professionally enough not to hit it.

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#135

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:25 AM UTC

praneshp wrote: post #38

nirav72 wrote: post #20

Air India, an old antiquated government subsidized airline that should die.

Right, there have been no incidents in privately run airlines over the past few years.

[deleted]

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#136

Post by berti » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:33 AM UTC

yutyut wrote: post #72

nmstoker wrote: post #66

Question for professional pilots here: does this feel like normal behaviour for a pilot? From my limited experience of pilots, this seems entirely unlike the kind of behaviour you'd expect - they're usually conservative when it comes to safety or is that just the projected image to reassure the public?!

No. Go-around and assess the damage on the deck.

A go-around wouldn't give much chance to assess the damage beyond superficial. Would be much better to fully land and stop.

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#137

Post by cm2187 » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:39 AM UTC

justboxing wrote: post #80

Just saw the pics of the damage on the twitter thread linked-to in the article. See below. https://twitter.com/shukla_tarun/status/1050595274869993474 Looks quite severe. I'm impressed the plane flew for 3 hours without getting destablized and crashing.... Air India has the worst safety reputation in India, and several accidents / incidents. I flew Spice Jet a few times over the last few weeks when I was there visiti…

I see some wires coming out, they can't possibly have not noticed, they must have lost some instruments, surely some warning lighted up in the cockpit.

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#138

Post by raverbashing » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 7:41 AM UTC

codeisawesome wrote: post #88

unionemployee wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately don’t have time for a long post at the moment, but as an airline pilot and instructor/check pilot, I can say that extreme incompetence exists in the airline world, especially in Africa, India, SE Asia. There could be some very good reasons that they chose to continue, and often I learn those reasons when the facts are released, discovering that a good decision was made. I’ll be following the investigati…

My, what a broad brush you have. With of course no ‘time’ to back it up with facts.

There are different failure modes

Asiana missing a landing in SFO on a perfectly clear day is one example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines_Flight_214

Cultures where hierarchy prevails over CRM and recent graduates can recall page 243 of the manual but can't do a visual landing in a perfect day are also dangerous.

About aviation in India, two recent incidents:

Jet Airways 9W-697 where crew apparently "forgot" to pressurize the plane. http://avherald.com/h?article=4bded8e6&opt=0

Air India AI-676 had "inexplicable loss of performance". Crew "forgot" to retract the landing gear: http://avherald.com/h?article=4ac18ec7&opt=0

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#139

Post by lolc » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 8:00 AM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #134

gandutraveler wrote: post #127

Why is there a brick wall so close to runaway?

Because most pilots can fly professionally enough not to hit it.

There are failures modes a pilot has no chance of resolving.

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#140

Post by MaulingMonkey » Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 8:02 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #77

cjbprime wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh, there have been Cessna deaths caused the same way. It's my least favorite failure mode to think about, since there's no obvious way to correct. In a Cessna, best you can do is release the yoke and tiptoe on to the rudders, but professional instructors have still died when this happens to them, since low altitude errors are often not correctable by the time you've lost too much altitude. Usually there ought to be…

In contrast, I can't say I've ever heard of seats in cars having this problem. Is it because plane seats are highly optimised for weight?

My front driver's seat adjustment is all motorized - but not the passenger seat. Originally it annoyed me (the motors are so slow to move!) but now I'm wondering if it might be an intentional safety feature - it's never "unlocked", so you won't suddenly slide away from the pedals and wheel because a part failed to latch right.