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Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

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131–140 of 455 posts

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Requiring authorized/first party repair is manifestly bad. Consider what the automobile landscape would look like if the same were true.

It’s true for Tesla. Especially for body work. Takes many weeks due to backlog. But anecdotally, after many many years of disappointing experiences with independent repair shops, when I could finally afford repairs at the dealer, I was no longer disappointed.

> It’s true for Tesla. Especially for body work. Takes many weeks due to backlog.

That's growing pains though. Give it a few years and there should be greater parts availability and independent electric car repair shops.

> But anecdotally, after many many years of disappointing experiences with independent repair shops, when I could finally afford repairs at the dealer, I was no longer disappointed.

There are a lot of bad mechanics out there. The trouble is as many of them work for the dealerships as not, so it's not much of a filter in general. Even if the quality at dealerships is slightly higher, the possibility of going to an independent shop is the only thing keeping their prices in check. Or their service quality for that matter.

You'll find no trouble getting service for your ten year old car. Ask Apple to support your ten year old iPhone.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#132

The iMac Pro is similarly locked down. All while Apple fights against Right To Repair legislation.

It's absolutely baffling how so many seemingly educated, knowledgeable people such as those found in tech can support these anti-user practices via their support of Apple's products. It goes further than just Apple's hardware products: some people prefer to build "Hackintosh" systems (OSX running on non-Apple hardware) and a common problem is dealing with wifi-adapter whitelists. Why would you ever want to consider u…

Because, statistically speaking, 0% of the population wants to tinker with their computer. Neither you nor anybody else on this website is normal.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#133

Well, that’s the end of corporate MacBooks, then...

If you're a company providing expensive computers to white collar workers, you should probably just be giving your people new machines to use while their machines are being repaired anyway. In that scenario, it doesn't really matter if repairs take longer because broken machines need to be shipped to Apple.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time is money. I charge more per hour than my authorized bmw dealer charges me.

Not the main issue with a hobby. It's as much because it's a satisfying Saturday afternoon as saving $$ on hourly rates. In 30 years of vehicle ownership, all main and authorised dealers do a shoddy job. Frequently fraudulent by charging for parts they did not fit. I'll prefer the independent who's probably struggling to survive.

Agreed. I've found the dealership mechanics to be lobotomized flow-chart followers. If X isn't working, replace part A, if that fails, replace part B, if that fails, replace part C.

Why not just run the necessary tests to determine which part is broken?

Source: exhaust valve spring was broken, and dealership somehow wanted to sell me spark plugs and ignition coils, despite my own notes stating that I've swapped them around but the problem didn't move around.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a tradeoff between owner repairability and security. And Apple is betting that the second is more important. This isn't a black/white issue. It's which shade of grey you prefer.

It is not a trade-off. Apple is instead purposely trying to make it more difficult to repair their devices. This is evidenced because they ate lobbying against right to repair laws. What possible, non bad faith reason could apple have for opposing people's right to repair their own property?

They are lobbying against the right to repair laws because it will limit what they are able to do from a security standpoint. And, since basically nobody repairs their own machines anyway, it would be a damned shame if 100% of their users lost out on having the best security features possible because 0% of their users want to be able to repair their laptop.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#136

Back when end users could replace (upgrade) RAM and storage, I cared about keeping that flexibility. Now those are soldered to the motherboard and generally non-upgradeable from the start. This change affects “display assembly, logic board, top case (the keyboard, touchpad, and internal housing), and Touch ID board”. I could see wanting an alternate, after-market keyboard, but otherwise am happy to stick with Apple p…

What dystopic future world do you live in where everything is integrated on every device? Maybe for phones, but that kind of lock-in isn't THAT common. It even makes economic sense for OEMs to use standard parts, so it's not like upgradeable RAM is some wild fantasy. And making a replacement a hassle is waaaay different from making it impossible. This is a HUGE problem and probably the most anti-consumer move I've ever seen.

Let's ignore that it actively discourages users (think students and kids) from tinkering with computer parts and learning, which was how I got into technology. It affects all non-Apple Authorized repair shops, which are currently able to take salvaged working parts from broken machines to provide fixes at a fraction of the cost.

Right now, Authorized repair shops are forced to buy parts directly from Apple at basically double the cost, so many do not have a large stock of newer or more rare parts on hand. Apple has moved towards selling entire assemblies and not individual parts - logic boards include CPUs, coolers, RAM, etc. So, if you have a busted USB port, you're getting all of that replaced and paying for it. Does your MacBook Pro have a busted keyboard key? Let's hope the heat didn't warp any of those warranty void stickers, because you're getting a new entire top half of the chassis, trackpad, and battery.

Even though those stickers are not legally binding, I'm about 98% sure they CAN be enforced through the service provider's contract with Apple. AASP are "permitted to deny service for any product that has been opened or modified by a customer, regardless of warranty, both for safety reasons and to avoid responsibility if the machine cannot be fixed.” Regardless of warranty. To get fair prices, AASPs return broken parts to Apple for recycling, so any aftermarket fixes mean the AASP gets the crazy price if they look the other way. It's in Apple's best interest to void an active warranty, and they have plenty of nit picky, obnoxious tests that are fully sanctioned by the company.

It isn't that you can't get a warrantied device repaired by a certified technician - it's that you can a device, regardless of warranty, repaired AT ALL. The AASP are the only ones that could use these special tools. They are punishing you even if you repair it successfully.

Imagine if you were completely unable to start your car because you took it to a non-certified auto shop for a timing belt. The new belt is fine, but it wasn't 'activated' by the manufacturer, and now no certified shop will touch the car because it's blacklisted. They won't even put a new certified belt on and activate it because to get the belt at a reasonable price, they have to send the entire engine back to the manufacturer with a ruined certified belt, and even then there would be a record of Shop X assisting with Y machines that failed the Certified Tool Test. Let's take a closer look at Shop X's replacement part submissions... Looks like this user replaced their wiper fluid with a slightly more blue wiper fluid. Warranty voided.

Locking out third party repairs means you do not own your computer - Apple is allowing you to use it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwEInwvFbwk https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/18/linus-tech-tips-imac-pr...

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My opinion about Apple has changed recently. They're now actively promoting privacy and I am OK with trading repairability with privacy. Also, Louis Rossmann on Youtube one of the most vile, deeply corrosive personalities out there and his audience enjoys the bashing of Apple left and right. He has essentially marketed himself as Anti-Apple and his message is always "Apple is Evil".

Watching Rossmann vids is why I have given up on Apple. He points out bad engineering/manufacturing in $2000+ laptops and I agree with his insights regarding how Apple makes it seem like the customer/user is wrong to cover their bad engineering. Ala -- the antenna is fine, it's your fault you have bad reception. You are not holding the phone correctly

> Ala -- the antenna is fine, it's your fault you have bad reception. You are not holding the phone correctly

But it turned out Apple was right about that; the iPhone 4 sold for years after the bumper program ended and with high consumer satisfaction.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#138
These videos created by a third party Apple repair shop convinced me to ditch Apple: https://www.youtube.com/user/rossmanngroup/videos?view=0&sor...

He goes into the poor practices they use in manufacturing in general that literally every other manufacturer gets right. They might use under-sized capacitors to save room on the board. The first "unibody" they advertised had two aluminum parts glued together. Some of their repairs for recall-level issues amounted to burning the board, which masks the problem and kicks the can down the road until your warranty runs out. They actively fight your right to repair.

I like how their products look and work, but they really make unreliable products that look and feel premium with substandard engineering, overcharge, perform shockingly shoddy first party repair and generally try to shift blame to customers.

So, for the engineering, you'd want to get AppleCare.. a very expensive extended warranty, on an already overpriced machine, where they will give you refurbished boards/computers, using their own often highly questionable repair tactics, like placing rubber over things to push it harder onto the board instead of re-soldering, or baking the board to mask problems.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#139
post #106

Back when end users could replace (upgrade) RAM and storage, I cared about keeping that flexibility. Now those are soldered to the motherboard and generally non-upgradeable from the start. This change affects “display assembly, logic board, top case (the keyboard, touchpad, and internal housing), and Touch ID board”. I could see wanting an alternate, after-market keyboard, but otherwise am happy to stick with Apple p…

... and anyone who likes to keep their system a good long time https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624 Given the lackluster upgrade options in the last 5+ years, I can see a lot of people trying to hang on to their next/last PC as long as possible. Now they'll have no options once Apple decides their system is done.

I just spent a day eviscerating my 2012 unibody MacBook Pro to replace its keyboard and battery. It’s a little depressing to think that after over 2 decades of using Apple hardware and software it will probably be the last thing I ever buy from them.

Re: Apple's Proprietary Software Locks Kill Independent Repair on New MacBook Pros

#140
post #93

The impact of this will be much bigger outside of the US, as most countries outside of North America do not have a single Apple Store. In those countries, usually there is a licensed repair provider, but the customer experience can be drastically different. In Bulgaria, I've had to wait of over 3 weeks for a simple in-warranty repair of a MacBook, like a keyboard replacement. Using unlicensed repair stores has been t…

"Most countries outside of North Americs don't have a single apple store" lol. Rinse out your brain.
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