Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#131

Post by asendra » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 2:07 PM UTC

basch wrote: post #109

mrpopo wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throttling performance pushes people into replacing their phone just as much as a worn battery. Probably even more so, since a phone shutting down rapidly and randomly is much more symptomatic of a worn battery, and might entice people to replace the battery instead of the entire phone. A battery getting old is not planned obsolescence. A hard-to-replace battery is. Apple is a pioneer in that area.

they prevented spontaneous reboots. if you dont think apple was right, and the tech press was engaged in yellow journalism, you are wrong. apple was mitigating a very specific hardware failure.

Yes and no.

the solution to the problem was the correct one, they just forgot one important detail.

TELL THE USER!

As a result, plenty of people, (including myself) noticing their two year phone starting to slow down quite a bit, decided to upgrade to the new and shiny model, instead of just replacing the battery, because who would have known that was the problem?!

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#132

Post by asendra » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 2:12 PM UTC

arooaroo wrote: post #38

Tell that to the person/people in charge of the lightning port and headphone jack on the iPhone. I know headphone jacks are no longer on Apple's radar, but they always seem to get messed up after a year so that the stock iPhone headphones are not recognised and thus the control buttons don't work. However, the lightning port drives me mad because the blasted device won't charge up properly without me fiddling with an…

You have dirt inside your lightning port. Clean it up and should be fine.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#133

Post by spupy » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 2:13 PM UTC

norswap wrote: post #108

Hard to believe, that would be a 180 degree turn. The two iPhones I owned (3G and 4) had shit durability. I'm not sure the fault laid in the hardware (although my mute button broke on the 3G), but software updates made the phone unusable. Otoh, my Galaxy S4 from 6 years ago stills runs well (if not always cool ). I've repeatedly seen Android phones actually get faster when applying updates.

> I've repeatedly seen Android phones actually get faster when applying updates.

IF the get updates. My Android phone managed to get slower even without getting any OS updates...

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#134

Post by tialaramex » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 2:13 PM UTC

Tor3 wrote: post #58

cptskippy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe was asking for something akin to old Nokia phones.

The old Nokia phones used another strategy (and so did most other vendors): Every new model used a different battery. Which at the same time obsoleted the battery in the old model, i.e. no new batteries were produced. You could still buy them, but they would have stayed on the shelf for a long time - in other words, they were as old as the battery you replaced. I bought a number of replacement batteries over the year…

No. I used Nokia phones from the mid-1990s until I reluctantly bought an Android phone a few years back.

The 6110 needed a different battery from the 2140 I had originally, but from there all the way until the 6310i in mid 2000s they were compatible.

Its even spelled out on their Wikipedia entry. "Accessories (such as batteries) can generally be swapped between all these models."

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#135

Post by ceejayoz » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 2:16 PM UTC

jjoonathan wrote: post #123

ceejayoz wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One person's "intentionally making it more complex" is another person's "waterproof to two meters".

Have gaskets really been forgotten for technical reasons or were they quietly smothered when the planned obsolescence benefits of potting entered the industry's consciousness?

When my kids' lunch container gaskets leak, I have to throw the lunchbox in the wash.

When my iPhone's leak, I'm out potentially $1500.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#136

Post by jjrh » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 2:17 PM UTC

beloch wrote: post #12

You know what helps products last longer and reduces waste at the same time? Repairability . The repairability of apple products is so poor that even Apple can't fix most of their own products without replacing surprisingly large portions of any given Apple device. End user repairability has been utterly neglected. Disassembly is frequently impossible without causing damage, and components such as batteries are frequ…

Replaceable batteries aren't even just about the 3 years later when it stops holding a useful charge, it's about day 1 ownership where I happen to want/need more flexibility.

I loved that with my now rather old G2, I effectively never plugged the actual phone in, I had a wall charger for batteries and just swapped them in and out. Now I just use a powerbank which isn't nearly as convenient. Rapid charge on phones has made running out of battery far less painful however.

Laptops are the one that really drive me nuts and I haven't heard a very compelling argument against a user replaceable battery. Some thinkpads even have a small internal battery that provides enough juice to let you swap out the main battery and not have the computer shut off - that's super cool and practical, i'll take a few mm extra thickness.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#137

Post by Someone1234 » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 2:19 PM UTC

jsjohnst wrote: post #79

cryptos wrote: post #3

That is all very well and I really appreciate Apple's long support for iPhones, but Apple did popularize firmly bonded batteries in its phones and even in notebooks. A battery is a wear part and should be easy to replace. Every thing else leads to more waste.

> Apple did popularize firmly bonded batteries Have you disassembled an iPhone or even watched a video on it? There’s a pull strip which makes the battery pretty simple to release. It’s not like it’s superglued to the case.

I have, which is why I know how poorly those pull strips work. They often break off leaving the battery firmly attached and it needs to be heated/pried off (which can be quite dangerous).

The pull strip was a nice addition, but they need to improve their strength so they cannot break.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#138

Post by Someone1234 » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 2:21 PM UTC

Dennip wrote: post #110

cryptos wrote: post #3

That is all very well and I really appreciate Apple's long support for iPhones, but Apple did popularize firmly bonded batteries in its phones and even in notebooks. A battery is a wear part and should be easy to replace. Every thing else leads to more waste.

I've replaced batteries in a 4 and 6 and neither has been that difficult with an iFixit guide

iFixIt are forced to use unofficial parts (Apple won't sell to them), unofficial guides (Apple won't provide the documentation), and no jigs/tools (proprietary). iFixIt aren't a good argument for why Apple's devices are easily repairable, they're an example of overcoming the roadblocks Apple puts between the consumer and repairing their Apple device.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#139

Post by toasterlovin » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 2:24 PM UTC

mrpopo wrote: post #89

kgermino wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[1] badly misrepresents what happened. Throttling peak performance when the battery can’t deliver enough power for it helps people use the phone longer. It’s almost the opposite of planned obsolescence. The alternative is people’s phone shuts down randomly, which is definitely more likely to push them into replacing it. It also is fixed after the battery is replaced. Unless you mean that the battery gettin old is pla…

Throttling performance pushes people into replacing their phone just as much as a worn battery. Probably even more so, since a phone shutting down rapidly and randomly is much more symptomatic of a worn battery, and might entice people to replace the battery instead of the entire phone. A battery getting old is not planned obsolescence. A hard-to-replace battery is. Apple is a pioneer in that area.

There a million shops where you can get the battery on an iPhone replaced.

Re: Apple now strives to design and build products that last as long as possible

#140

Post by soundwave106 » Mon, Sep 17, 2018, 2:24 PM UTC

krn wrote: post #117

llampx wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As people start keeping their phones longer, they will start preferring phones that are more durable and repairable. Making cars that break after a few thousand miles worked out for GM and Chrysler right up until the Japanese and German competition arrived.

The thing smartphones is, that many people actually do want to replace them every few years for a better camera, a better screen, or for some trending feature-of-the-year, like a fingerprint reader or wireless charging. Aren't most Americans replacing their perfectly working flagship smartphones every 2 years?

That used to be the case, actually life cycles in earlier years were sometimes even shorter than that (apparently it was only a year and a half back in 2007 -- http://reconanalytics.com/2015/02/2014-us-mobile-phone-sales...).

But several articles seem to point out that the upgrade cycle is slowing down -- up to 2 and 3/4 years according to this source (https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/us/news/press-releases/20...) for instance.

I think the second link is correct that 5G might offer some incentive to upgrade, but else wise there's just less reason to constantly upgrade your phones these days. The delta between an iPhone 7 and an iPhone 8 is not that huge versus the delta between an iPhone 3GS and an iPhone 4.