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Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

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Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#131

Post by bengarrr »

mvc wrote: post #119
uissna wrote: post #10

This is an open secret in tech. Visa holders have less job offers to negotiate with, less job mobility, and consequently get paid less. Companies preferentially hire them over Americans. Further, the recent actions making harder for "body shops" like Infosys are actually helping big tech companies win more visa lotteries. This means the recent action that was supposed to help American workers, is actually causing the…

> I am not anti immigrant but the immigration system disproportionately hurts American software engineers and American tech Cry me a river. Do you also complain about internal migration towards cities like San Francisco and Boston. It's the same principal at play. Tech workers from all over the US flock to cities where the wealth is. Tech workers from around the world flock to the US because that's where the wealth i…

It's not about stealing jobs it's about jobs offering less compensation and benefits than what they would normally because they can exploit the inherent risks of immigrating to lock people into less substantial employment contracts.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#132

Post by cisco-throwaway »

I work here!

I also participated in this!

We needed to hire a few people at a smaller Cisco site for a project in a less than favourite BU. Recruitment reached out to me after my rec didn’t find any fits in a week and the pushed a couple candidates my way. As these candidates required sponsorship, we knew that we could probably retain them for less and for longer. I don’t have anything against Americans, but if I can get someone who is better educated, will not jump ship in 18 months, and will do more for less then I’ll jump all over that.

Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#133

Post by sonnyblarney »

craftyguy wrote: post #126
sonnyblarney wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" I never understand why locals should get preferential treatment. Companies do business, not philanthropy." Citizens have absolutely no interest in enabling and empowering corporations unless they serve the community in some way. Ergo, if corps serve only the benefit of shareholders and not really consumers or anyone else ... and the population derives no benefit ... then those people would vote to disable the very…

> Citizens have absolutely no interest in enabling and empowering corporations unless they serve the community in some way. Citizens have absolutely no interest in enabling and empowering corporations unless they provide them with a beneficial service/product(s). I seriously doubt most citizens/consumers understand (or care about) the philanthropy implied by your statement. Do you really think people around the world…

Hiring locals is not philanthropy and people generally care quite a lot about it, that's why ABC corp can't hire anyone in the world and just bring them to America.

Remember that hiring foreigners doesn't just mean 'work' - it means bringing them into the country and all that entails.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#134

Post by dudul »

cisco-throwaway wrote: post #132

I work here! I also participated in this! We needed to hire a few people at a smaller Cisco site for a project in a less than favourite BU. Recruitment reached out to me after my rec didn’t find any fits in a week and the pushed a couple candidates my way. As these candidates required sponsorship, we knew that we could probably retain them for less and for longer. I don’t have anything against Americans, but if I can…

Is 1 week of open rec legally enough to justify hiring an H1B? I thought the legal requirement to justify the petition was longer than that.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#135

Post by refurb »

learc83 wrote: post #78
fooker wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>is actually causing the best jobs to shift more to immigrants and less to Americans Ah, wonders of the free market. ;) Do you honestly think Google/Apple/Microsoft/Facebook/etc hire foreigners because they have to pay them less? The legal costs of hiring and maintaining them easily adds up to 20-30k $ per year.

It's harder for them to switch jobs, and depending on where they are in the process of applying for a green card, they may have to restart if they do switch. That kind of "loyalty" is easily worth 20k-30k for a lot of companies.

But they can always go home, there is nothing to stop that. So I would argue the loyalty they buy isn’t worth much.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#136

Post by refurb »

rhacker wrote: post #98
fooker wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>is actually causing the best jobs to shift more to immigrants and less to Americans Ah, wonders of the free market. ;) Do you honestly think Google/Apple/Microsoft/Facebook/etc hire foreigners because they have to pay them less? The legal costs of hiring and maintaining them easily adds up to 20-30k $ per year.

And when those people are 100% remote, don't add up to 20-30k per head, and are paid 1/10 the cost of a US citizen?

That’s not how it works. DOL sets a floor to salaries based on the US prevailing wage. If any H1-B holder is paying 1/10th of what a US worker costs, they are breaking the law.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#138

Post by JumpCrisscross »

uissna wrote: post #10

This is an open secret in tech. Visa holders have less job offers to negotiate with, less job mobility, and consequently get paid less. Companies preferentially hire them over Americans. Further, the recent actions making harder for "body shops" like Infosys are actually helping big tech companies win more visa lotteries. This means the recent action that was supposed to help American workers, is actually causing the…

> the immigration system disproportionately hurts American software engineers and American tech

The immigration debate suffers from overgeneralisation. Illegal immigration is a different problem from legal immigration. And short-term skilled migrants are unlike long-term skilled immigrants. Short-term migrants, i.e. those with no intention of staying in the U.S. long-term, probably depress American wages. Skilled immigrants aiming for residency, and certain classes of unskilled illegal immigrants, appear to add net value.

(Exhibit A of our system's self-destructiveness are international students at American universities being refused residency on graduation.)

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#139

Post by untog »

fooker wrote: post #67
uissna wrote: post #10

This is an open secret in tech. Visa holders have less job offers to negotiate with, less job mobility, and consequently get paid less. Companies preferentially hire them over Americans. Further, the recent actions making harder for "body shops" like Infosys are actually helping big tech companies win more visa lotteries. This means the recent action that was supposed to help American workers, is actually causing the…

>is actually causing the best jobs to shift more to immigrants and less to Americans Ah, wonders of the free market. ;) Do you honestly think Google/Apple/Microsoft/Facebook/etc hire foreigners because they have to pay them less? The legal costs of hiring and maintaining them easily adds up to 20-30k $ per year.

> The legal costs of hiring and maintaining them easily adds up to 20-30k $ per year.

Per year? No it doesn't. An H1B is valid for three years, renewable to six. Unless you're doing something strange there is no cost for the other years.

Re: Cisco Said to Be Cited for Bias Against U.S. Workers

#140

Post by imbusy111 »

gedy wrote: post #107
imbusy111 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be delusional thinking that there is such a thing as an American. USA is the land of immigrants and as long as the best people come to US, it is the place to be. Ban the immigrants and the country loses its edge.

> You seem to be delusional thinking that there is such a thing as an American. You seem to forget that there is citizenship.

There is citizenship, it gives you more rights than an immigrant has. But even then you are just a child of an immigrant or N-th generation immigrant, where N is not that big.
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