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Six Months at Riot Games

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Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#131

Post by meheleventyone »

pjc50 wrote: post #26
amarant wrote: post #8

wow, I would expect such behavior from teenage gamers, but I'm surprised to see it reported among (presumably adult) game-devs. what is perhaps even more surprising is that they seem to somehow be able to cooperate enough to deliver a undeniably popular game. don't get me wrong, I don't doubt for a second that what Meagan says is true. I am simply surprised they manage to produce anything at all in such a culture, le…

They're only directing their hostility at the ""other"". All this shittiness doesn't affect their straight white male devs (the majority), so they can function just fine. Game devs tend to be gamers who've reached adulthood but would like to stay within the gaming culture. That means they're either acclimatized to or actively enjoy the shittiness. All this stuff used to be "standard business culture" in the West, and…

I’m not sure I’d characterise game developers quite that way but Riot’s hiring practices almost certainly contributed towards hiring that subset of developers. They require you to be a hardcore gamer and regular League player. Amongst other things this is quite a good filter to find a bunch of toxic employees.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#132

Post by pjc50 »

madengr wrote: post #121
exelius wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s more that you shouldn’t use that word in the first place — it doesn’t matter if your friends are gay or not; the fact it’s a hateful insult that tells gay men they are lesser is enough. Imagine the young little gay kid who hears “f\ t” screamed 20 times an hour — how will that make him feel for the rest of his life? Are you just cementing in his head that it’s wrong to be gay? I hate to say it, but the days of a…

Who’s the “we’re”? I don’t agree with YouTube banning Alex Jones and numerous gun channels. I’ll probably cancel my YouTube red subscription over it. 25 years ago you would find the KKK show on NYC public access cable. A round table of guys in hoods, with an AK-47 table piece, talking about African Jews. That was there due to governments freedom of speech protections. Government is now turning a blind eye while corpo…

> 25 years ago you would find the KKK show on NYC public access cable. A round table of guys in hoods, with an AK-47 table piece, talking about African Jews.

If I were the FCC, I'd be shutting down those guys.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#133

Post by pmyteh »

Uberphallus wrote: post #114
pmyteh wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely LGBT-phobic. Do you know how many out gay professional footballers there are in the UK? Zero. Because the atmosphere around sexuality in professional football is sufficiently toxic that very few people are willing to come out before they retire. These things can change. Thirty years ago black players had bananas thrown at them on the pitch. After a lot of work, racism is now rare at football grounds,…

Justin Fashanu [0] is a counter example. He came out in 1991(!). I don't see how it's a problem now when it wasn't back then. That said, it's the fandom that's rotten, not the players and the industry itself. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Fashanu

"It gives me goosebumps to think of Jason Collins' decision and the way it has been received so positively," Justin's niece, Amal Fashanu, told Yahoo! Sports on Wednesday. Amal, who was only 8 years old when her uncle died, made an award-winning documentary about him for the BBC last year.

"Justin didn't have any of that," she continued. "None of the warmth, none of the recognition that what he did took so much courage. Instead, he was picked on because of it, made to feel inferior, different, wrong. He was a lost soul, but even then his precedent secretly gave a lot of people hope. I get messages about what an inspiration he was from all around the world, all the time."

[...]

Soccer players learn to develop the ability to block out the taunts of the fans, even the most sickening and bigoted vitriol. But what stung Fashanu the most were the comments of his brother John, himself a leading pro who would twice play for the England national team. John Fashanu described Justin as an "outcast" after his revelations about his sexuality, bemoaning the fact that he (John) would be the focus of extra attention from jeering fans as a result of Justin coming out.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/soccer--before-jason-collins--...

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#134

Post by pjc50 »

zimablue wrote: post #130
detaro wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a difference between "talking about women" and the things described in the article (and a lot of different ways of talking about women, which can be done without degrading language). Calling a coworker a "Ho" or complaining they'd not be willing to share a hotel room with an unknown man is not the same level as "they didn't like that we talk about women".

I think the Ho thing was clearly an attempt at humor, and an attempt to "bring her in" to the group. It's like an old job where I was called a coal miner (being the only guy from north England). It's a nice thing, you're taking stick but that's how male groups normally bond. Instead of taking the humor as it's intended she takes offense, and what's really happening is that instead of submitting to their culture and j…

The trouble with this sort of thing is that it's all "friendly" up until, and sometimes past, the rape attempts.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#135

Post by trowawee »

zimablue wrote: post #130
detaro wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a difference between "talking about women" and the things described in the article (and a lot of different ways of talking about women, which can be done without degrading language). Calling a coworker a "Ho" or complaining they'd not be willing to share a hotel room with an unknown man is not the same level as "they didn't like that we talk about women".

I think the Ho thing was clearly an attempt at humor, and an attempt to "bring her in" to the group. It's like an old job where I was called a coal miner (being the only guy from north England). It's a nice thing, you're taking stick but that's how male groups normally bond. Instead of taking the humor as it's intended she takes offense, and what's really happening is that instead of submitting to their culture and j…

There's an enormous gap between calling someone a sex worker and calling them a coal miner. There's an even-more-enormous gap between calling most of your team "bros" and calling the one woman on your team a sex worker. That is not in-group bonding, that's targeted, gender-based harassment.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#136

Post by lsmarigo »

ecshafer wrote: post #79
lsmarigo wrote: post #40

Interesting that this one is doing well compared to the longer in-depth kotaku article a few days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17710188 - fwiw that piece has since been corroborated by a ton of former riot employees on twitter. At the risk of sounding overly cynical, this is all true and everyone knows about it, people feign disgust at these articles but we're all complicit and understanding that this is…

This isn't the way things are though, at least no where I've worked. I work in the finance industry as a software developer and if any of that stuff happened, there would be a huge outcry and some serious reprimands and firings. In most of America things are nothing like that. These are immature people that got lucky and rich and still act like frat boys.

That's good to hear honestly.

In most of America things are nothing like that.

Can't speak to America at large but the game industry in California is absolutely like this, tech seems to be in a similar situation. It's a v complex problem with no apparent fix.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#137

Post by wild_preference »

zimablue wrote: post #56

Looking at this skeptically, given that as she says she put a target on her own back there's not much concrete here about problems she personally faced. Companies have a culture, it might not be your culture, and it's mental to expect to be able to walk in and attack it in the first six months then everything be sweetness and joy. Joining a gaming company and complaining about female outfits is roughly equivalent to…

My older brother settled down in the suburbs and picks up work as a substitute teacher in a school with female-dominated staff. He’s a handsome guy. Every time I see him, he tells me the latest story of a teacher or fellow staffmember making a crude sexual joke or coming on to him. All of these being mostly middle-aged women. We have a chuckle.

It’s interesting how men generally don’t “whistleblow” on those sorts of scenarios. Yet only men ever get nailed with “ugh, pigs!” as if women never have open sexual thoughts.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#138

Post by Zak »

majewsky wrote: post #84
MatthewWilkes wrote: post #47

9 clicks to opt out of tracking cookies. Why do these companies bother adding these banners if they're not going to comply with the law?

To instill negative public opinion of GDPR.

It's working.

I've found myself unable to access a bunch of US-based local news sites from Europe without using a proxy, and I'm more annoyed with the EU for trying to enforce laws beyond its borders than I am with the sites for seeing geoblocking as the most expedient solution.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#139

Post by zimablue »

ck425 wrote: post #129
zimablue wrote: post #56

Looking at this skeptically, given that as she says she put a target on her own back there's not much concrete here about problems she personally faced. Companies have a culture, it might not be your culture, and it's mental to expect to be able to walk in and attack it in the first six months then everything be sweetness and joy. Joining a gaming company and complaining about female outfits is roughly equivalent to…

> "I saw men acting the way men do in a very male environment and objectifying/trying to sleep with women." Enough with the boys will be boys angle. That behavior doesn't have to be the default male behavior. It shouldn't be the default male behavior. Enough is enough, that's not ok anymore. And we men need start calling each other out on it.

Why shouldn't it be the default male group behavior (for some ages and environments) to discuss women?

Is it that trying to sleep with women is immoral or that considering their looks is immoral or that discussing it is immoral?

I guess the core way I disagree with modern culture is that there's this idea that women are either viewed as objects or as humans. It's kind of obvious that they're both, if you say that women are absolutely not sexual objects or to be seen as such then OK but you've blinded yourself to 50% of how the world unavoidably works. You can and should view women BOTH as objects and humans, and everyone is capable of doing so. I don't think objectification is the offense, I think dehumanisation is and they're not the same thing.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#140

Post by trowawee »

wild_preference wrote: post #137
zimablue wrote: post #56

Looking at this skeptically, given that as she says she put a target on her own back there's not much concrete here about problems she personally faced. Companies have a culture, it might not be your culture, and it's mental to expect to be able to walk in and attack it in the first six months then everything be sweetness and joy. Joining a gaming company and complaining about female outfits is roughly equivalent to…

My older brother settled down in the suburbs and picks up work as a substitute teacher in a school with female-dominated staff. He’s a handsome guy. Every time I see him, he tells me the latest story of a teacher or fellow staffmember making a crude sexual joke or coming on to him. All of these being mostly middle-aged women. We have a chuckle. It’s interesting how men generally don’t “whistleblow” on those sorts of…

It's almost like...there's some sort of gendered power imbalance in society? That might make men comfortable disregarding this? But that might not afford women the same privilege?
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