Smoking around the world • Hacker News Board

Re: Smoking around the world

#131

Post by shady-lady » Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 6:25 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #129

shady-lady wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the libertarian in me thinks that people should be free to do what they want to their bodies provided it is not at the expense of society as a whole society is burdened in the 50% chance scenario that they develop lung cancer, alongside other medical problems which smoking exacerbates as well as being a contributory factor to others.

People die of something. It costs no matter what that is. So there's some extra cost since they're dying sooner (maybe?) It's more complicated than 'Hospital costs!' since those are pretty unavoidable no matter how you die?

We generally don't shoot people in the head when they've been diagnosed with lung cancer so society doesn't save any money there. So the extensive treatment required to treat lung cancer is greater than somebody not getting treatment because they don't have lung cancer.

To be more succinct, there's a large difference between a person requiring lengthy treatment for lung cancer(hospital + morgue) before ultimately dying compared to somebody dying due to old age(morgue).

Re: Smoking around the world

#132

Post by telotortium » Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 7:46 PM UTC

geomark wrote: post #84

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Colour me highly in accurate! I sit not just corrected, but fairly shocked.

I was also a bit shocked when I saw how high the Personal Belief Exemption was in some counties. Above 5% unvaccinated pretty much destroys herd immunity. So most of northern California is a no-go zone for people who appreciate the value of herd immunity. What I have not seen, but would like to, is data for other states.

Fortunately, the highest-population counties in northern California are not too high - the number of schoolchildren in such counties is much lower that this map would indicate.

Re: Smoking around the world

#133

Post by JoeAltmaier » Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 10:15 PM UTC

shady-lady wrote: post #131

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People die of something. It costs no matter what that is. So there's some extra cost since they're dying sooner (maybe?) It's more complicated than 'Hospital costs!' since those are pretty unavoidable no matter how you die?

We generally don't shoot people in the head when they've been diagnosed with lung cancer so society doesn't save any money there. So the extensive treatment required to treat lung cancer is greater than somebody not getting treatment because they don't have lung cancer. To be more succinct, there's a large difference between a person requiring lengthy treatment for lung cancer(hospital + morgue) before ultimately dyi…

Nobody dies of 'old age' any more. They die of something that was under treatment in general. That's all.

Re: Smoking around the world

#134

Post by whamlastxmas » Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 10:44 PM UTC

bunderbunder wrote: post #3

Obligatory bikeshedding: It's really frustrating that, in the first two visualizations, whose only difference is that one shows data for women, and the other shows data for men, they chose to use two different color scales. It makes it difficult to compare between the two. For example, if you weren't paying close attention to the scales, you might easily get the impression that a greater proportion of women than men…

I read your comment, looked at the link, and made the same mistake before realizing what you had just said.

Re: Smoking around the world

#135

Post by dghughes » Sat, Aug 11, 2018, 3:21 AM UTC

duxup wrote: post #32

dghughes wrote: post #24

The worst part is lung diseases often take decades to appear. People who quit smoking after doing it for a few decades may be hit with COPD late in life just when they can least afford it. Compounding other health problems they may already have. COPD: "Long-term exposure to lung irritants that damage the lungs and the airways usually is the cause of COPD." - nhlbi.nih.gov I worry about the vaping trend I think there…

Always hard to know with science in the news but I thought that there was some good science that showed that even quitting late in life significantly reduced the risk of smoking related illnesses compared to those who did not stop. I thought that was quite interesting that even after say 30 years you could change the odds fairly dramatically.

I've seen that too something like "after an hour your blood pressure returns to normal. After a few days you can breathe easier..."

It's always good to quit but as with genetics people are different. A few rare cases where a person smokes until their 90s and never seems to be affected. But I'd say most people who smoke are not so lucky. Sure maybe in the short term and yes it's great for the ex-smoker and the people around them but late in life illnesses pile up and COPD is a big risk.

My dad smoked but quit around age 30 now he has two lung diseases: COPD and IPF. It's possible one or both are related to his work as an oiler on a ship. He was always around fumes, dust, paint, exhaust but his smoking probably had a lasting effect too.

Re: Smoking around the world

#136

Post by nvarsj » Mon, Aug 13, 2018, 8:16 AM UTC

saiya-jin wrote: post #124

nvarsj wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there's a darker side to that as well. Obesity is a problem for low income people - because cheap food is usually terrible for you - high calories, high salt, high fat and easy to eat a lot of. Think of your typical fast food - the amount of calories that can be bought for a few dollars. Same with soft drinks. Shaming people who get large might be one strategy, but we also need to stop the fast food peddlers th…

Sorry but I don't fully agree on this one - you can cook your own stuff from cheap ingredients, you can eat cheap pre-made salads etc. I had my share of burgers and other crappy food in my life, but it was always my conscious decision over healthier options. blaming some evil forces out there is beyond pathetic Let's stop treating people who eat what they want as children who don't have the willpower to decide for th…

> Let's stop treating people who eat what they want as children who don't have the willpower to decide for themselves (or like heroin addicts).

That's a really negative spin. Think of single parents who work two jobs, and barely have time to sleep. Shopping, planning meals, and cooking all take time. Stopping at MacDs and buying 99cent meals on the way home from work is way easier. Food that's bad for you, especially sugary soft drinks, should be taxed to cost a premium to encourage businesses to make their food healthier.