Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021 • Hacker News Board

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#131

Post by nobleach » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 1:54 PM UTC

nasredin wrote: post #67

billiam wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I too know many LDS members and really love the SLC area and all the other incredible things in the state. While I like lots of things about the LDS community, the society there has many of the problems of Western states with lots of poverty, plus some that may be attributed to Mormon values: the highest rate of antidepressant use of any state, and the highest rate of cosmetic surgery. As for crime, the murder…

You forgot pornography. Utahns love porn. Also all the crap LGBT Mormon kids go through.

I wouldn't say Utahns "love porn", just that the study showed they're willing to PAY for it more than any other state.

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#132

Post by stevetodd » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 1:56 PM UTC

euvitudo wrote: post #33

elgenie wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > Features like real-time electronic station signs, dedicated bus lanes and traffic signal priority will be added as construction continues. The question is whether dedicated lanes for 100% of the route is a launch blocker. Remember that portions of the route are more rural and may not have any congestion to deal with.

From what I see, where there is a lack of dedicated lanes the roads are typically quite narrow--very little room for expansion for even a single dedicated lane (aside from the two lanes of regular traffic). One section of the route is wide enough, but iirc, the residents along this particular segment in Provo fought against the dedicated lane (and won, afaik).

I live in Provo and drive frequently through the construction for the BRT. There will be dedicated lanes where there is typical congestion.

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#133

Post by michaelt » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 2:06 PM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #49

jrockway wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of cities have traffic light preemption for buses. Portland does it for the MAX (not a bus, I know), and Chicago tried it when I lived there, etc. (The problem then becomes, what happens when an emergency vehicle AND a bus both preempt the traffic light? In Portland anyway, MAX wins. That doesn't always mean the emergency vehicle stops, though, with predictable results.) I rode the bus route daily when they tr…

NYC's implementation is terrible because no other place with proof of payment stops the entire vehicle to check fares. The issue with free is that free transit tends to create a negative spiral where some walkers and bikers will switch to transit because it's free, so services have to be improved to deal with the crowding, which makes transit more appealing to bikers and walkers, which increases overcrowding, and so…

  The issue with free is that free transit tends to create a
  negative spiral where some walkers and bikers will switch
  to transit because it's free, so services have to be
  improved to deal with the crowding, which makes transit
  more appealing to bikers and walkers

Woudn't the same thing apply to drivers?

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#134

Post by reaperducer » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 2:08 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #115

taejo wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fact that there is a distinction between doctrine and dogma, both of which exist, and with the boundary between them subject to serious scholarly debate, just shows how dogmatic/doctrinaire (which are synonyms in everyday non-Catholic English) the Catholic Church is.

There's not a boundary between them, one is a subset of the other. And what it really shows is how old and large the Church is (and, specifically how many questions it's been called in to address.) How doctrinaire the Church is a pastoral question that (in terms of the central authority at least) changes considerably over time and especially with changes in Popes. Because, for all the accumulated history, tradition,…

what it really shows is how old and large the Church is

It's like trying to maintain a codebase for 1,700 years with only one major revision.

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#135

Post by zacharytelschow » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 2:10 PM UTC

SamReidHughes wrote: post #55

gumby wrote: post #11

I don't understand why road taxes aren't used to pay for free public transport. The more people on public transport the more room for cars.

Because it's easy enough to make public transportation's passengers pay?

Is it?

https://le.utah.gov/audit/12_01rpt.pdf

As of 2010, riders paid about 13% of the total cost of public transit operation. (Page 7, heading "Farebox Recovery Has Improved Since 2006")

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#136

Post by reaperducer » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 2:10 PM UTC

Osiris wrote: post #80

wwweston wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I can tell, all Mormons are buffet Mormons. The ones that think they're not just usually aren't thinking about the rest of what's being served besides what they usually eat. (Your point about relative comfort at this fact may remain true independent of this observation.)

I've been an active member my whole life (38) and I've never even heard of "space doctrine". I looked it up and as far as I can tell, there are some theories by members of the Church but nothing from any current or former members of the Quorum of the Twelve or First Presidency, which is required for something to really be considered canon. Just because some member of the Church believes or says something doesn't make…

Just because some member of the Church believes or says something doesn't make it doctrine.

This is a problem for most religions these days. Some random person says something is part of their religion, and everyone on the internet and the media believe it.

It's like whenever some Catholic priest in some backwater says something that is not in line with Catholic teaching, the news picks up on it as if it came out of the Pope's mouth. Then it gets repeated ad nauseam across the internet by people who don't know, or can't be bothered to find out, if it's true or not.

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#137

Post by zacharytelschow » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 2:11 PM UTC

gumby wrote: post #11

I don't understand why road taxes aren't used to pay for free public transport. The more people on public transport the more room for cars.

https://le.utah.gov/audit/12_01rpt.pdf Page 7, heading "Farebox Recovery Has Improved Since 2006"

If riders are only paying about 1/8 of the total cost, where do you suppose the rest is coming from?

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#138

Post by zacharytelschow » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 2:12 PM UTC

Heavily subsidized transportation that hemorrhages money doesn't work.

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#139

Post by saosebastiao » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 2:21 PM UTC

Osiris wrote: post #80

wwweston wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I can tell, all Mormons are buffet Mormons. The ones that think they're not just usually aren't thinking about the rest of what's being served besides what they usually eat. (Your point about relative comfort at this fact may remain true independent of this observation.)

I've been an active member my whole life (38) and I've never even heard of "space doctrine". I looked it up and as far as I can tell, there are some theories by members of the Church but nothing from any current or former members of the Quorum of the Twelve or First Presidency, which is required for something to really be considered canon. Just because some member of the Church believes or says something doesn't make…

I'd imagine that if you spent any significant amount of time tracking what Mormon apostles have actually said about a lot of controversial ideas, that you'd no longer be an active Mormon. The exmormon subreddit is littered with people who did exactly that.

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#140

Post by cbluth » Thu, Aug 09, 2018, 2:24 PM UTC

ptero wrote: post #120

Mbioguy wrote: post #6

A deeply red/Republican and relatively low-density state might seem like a strange place to find a functional public transit system. Utah is an interesting place. The geography of the Wasatch Front lends itself to public transit in ways that less geographically-constrained places do not. The region is mostly a north-south corridor, with occasional off-shoots to the side, which is how the transit network has developed…

> A deeply red/Republican and relatively low-density state might seem like a strange place to find a functional public transit system. I do not see it this way. Communities with shared values (republican or democratic), usually find it easier to agree on and build public services that they find useful. Getting efficient, inexpensive transport that does not cost too much to the state is pretty easy to justify. By the…

> if the US Federal government designs such a system it will be an inefficient and super costly monster pandering to special interests

I think you described every government project to date.