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Cognitive Distortions of People Who Get Stuff Done (2012) [pdf]

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Re: Cognitive Distortions of People Who Get Stuff Done (2012) [pdf]

#131

Post by jdmichal »

liamzebedee wrote: post #22
mariopt wrote: post #9

I found the slide for "Cognitive behaviour model of depression" very interesting, it's probably the best visualisation of depression taking over someones mind leading to a paralysis where simple tasks become something else and chaos emerges. Ego does, sometimes, gets in the way of getting things done but without it we wouldn't care to launch anything new/groundbreaking. Without our Ego as creator, we would have no so…

We had a thread a couple weeks ago "What interesting thought did you read on HN but couldn't find later?" - I'm wondering if anyone can help me rediscover this Wikipedia article. It was a theory on the cognitive bias of depression/anxiety, applied to the locus/worldview of someone, wherein a person interprets with a smaller outlook on the future i.e. the opposite of "looking at the bigger picture". I've found many an…

Incoming thread hijack:

I wish I had seen that thread! I've been looking for an article I'm pretty sure I found on HN. It was an idea of the development of consciousness from the basis of developing models for action planning. It starts with purely reactive, non-planned actions as the low rung. Then development of models of physical self and environment, allowing planned actions. Then adding social modeling, eventually yielding a model of self that allows for self reflection and consciousness.

Or, at least, that's what I think I remember. Can't find the article for the life of me...

Re: Cognitive Distortions of People Who Get Stuff Done (2012) [pdf]

#132

Post by SZJX »

ggm wrote: post #7

Yes, I think there are at least five. So this is a list of at least five, but not the five I think. Several of them feel like variations of the same theme: I know I'm right, so I can disregard evidence|opinion|counter-argument because .. an axiom of the system is I know I'm right. If I had a sixth, it would be the tendency to latch onto a mantra. "think different" doesn't really mean very much, but boy, successful pe…

> Several of them feel like variations of the same theme: I know I'm right, so I can disregard evidence|opinion|counter-argument because .. an axiom of the system is I know I'm right.

This if taken to the extreme is just narcissism and can wreck havoc. My father very frequently just gets possessed with insisting how only his interpretation or memory of the events is correct and ignores all sorts of even the most basic evidence, to the extent of absolutely distorting the reality. Not hard to imagine what sort of chaos and pain it has created in the family. Maybe sometimes this helps in running a business but if one takes it to personal interactions it can be simply ruining.

Also I do believe that the best leaders aren't the ones who insist on being a jerk but are instead those who can objectively evaluate evidence, genuinely listen to others and immediately acknowledge their own folly when their previous beliefs are wrong. Such traits can only be a plus, while distortive stubbornness is only negative and is a trait found in many depressed people as well.

> (I'm not a person who gets stuff done btw. the mantra my get-stuff-done colleagues say which feels apposite is: "do the shit work first" which kind of makes sense: they don't procrastinate about things they'd rather not do)

Sound advice.

> Another one: seventh might be they believe implicitly they are the smartest person in the room

How is this very different from the "personal exceptionalism" thing? Aren't they exactly the same? (The only difference might be that the original author insisted upon "macro-exceptionalism" but I doubt people can easily draw such a line in their self perception).

Re: Cognitive Distortions of People Who Get Stuff Done (2012) [pdf]

#134

Post by SZJX »

Nasrudith wrote: post #118

He calls it cognitive distortions but doesn't seem to offer any proof that their perceptions are wrong. It is possible they were provided in the actual content as opposed to the power-points to PDF. An anorexic convinced that they are fat when they are 75 pounds and their body is falling apart from lack of calories is a distortion. These paradigms don't seem to fit the definition. There is always the possibility that…

I guess there's sometimes a difference of degree. As somebody mentioned below, if somebody is dead set on believing himself to be correct as to ignore all the evidence to the contrary, he'll be perceived as a jerk, is in for big troubles and this is actually a common trait of depression. Also I can hardly see how "dichotomous thinking" can ever be realistic. The real world is always grey.

If somebody has excellent ability in performing correct inferences and a healthy dose of self belief as he knows what he's doing and knows he has indeed accumulated more than many others trying the same thing, those can indeed be positive personality traits. So I don't think they can all be called distortions but I don't believe all of them are sane either.

Re: Cognitive Distortions of People Who Get Stuff Done (2012) [pdf]

#135

Post by SZJX »

mariopt wrote: post #9

I found the slide for "Cognitive behaviour model of depression" very interesting, it's probably the best visualisation of depression taking over someones mind leading to a paralysis where simple tasks become something else and chaos emerges. Ego does, sometimes, gets in the way of getting things done but without it we wouldn't care to launch anything new/groundbreaking. Without our Ego as creator, we would have no so…

> Anyone who freelances, creates something alone, goes solo as a startup founder etc. needs these "cognitive distortions"/"mental disorders", I see them as necessary beliefs. The opposite would be someone who just blends into and becomes yet another functional toothed wheel without any manifestation of desires. A good portion of our society is like these, some people don't want more and are happy/contented.

I don't think those two things are dichotomous. (Is this dichotomous thinking being displayed right there?) One can very well be motivated by what they're doing but still understand and accept that they're fundamentally not very different from any other human being, and that they can look at the evidence, listen to others' ideas, and admit their mistakes, without jeopardizing their pursuit.

Sure, if somebody has excellent ability in performing correct inferences and a healthy dose of self belief as he knows what he's doing and knows he has indeed accumulated more than many others trying the same thing, those can indeed be positive personality traits. However if one goes as far as really "distorting" the reality/self perception, or look down upon others, I don't think it can end well at all. I would hypothesize that some founders succeeded despite being jerks, but most jerks are not successful founders, and most successful founders aren't jerks.

Re: Cognitive Distortions of People Who Get Stuff Done (2012) [pdf]

#136

Post by taneq »

kowe4i3tg wrote: post #53
adnzzzzZ wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop using luck as an excuse for your failures and other people's failures. https://github.com/SSYGEN/blog/issues/38

The gist of your link is "luck is real, but delude yourself so you won't give up." Fuck that. Luck is real. And I won't give up. It's called taking a leap of faith. You don't have to lie to yourself in order to take risks. Your solution is harmful. If people stop believing in luck, then everyone who fails just didn't try hard enough.

In risk management and safety analysis, they draw the distinction between "hazard" (being the thing that might cause damage/injury) and "risk" (being the exposure to it).

I think it's useful to take a similar approach when considering luck. Good things (big contracts, investors) are the equivalent of "hazard", and good market positioning, professional networking, persistence etc. then increase the "risk" of them paying off. It's not about "being lucky", it's about increasing the likelihood of positive outcomes to a level where your overall success becomes likely.

Re: Cognitive Distortions of People Who Get Stuff Done (2012) [pdf]

#137

Post by SZJX »

rossdavidh wrote: post #29

Hypothesis: the "people who get stuff done" are a subset of a larger group with the same personality and talents, but without as much luck. Those other people are known by unprintable names, because they have no great successes to make people ignore the fact that they're jerks.

Exactly. People tend to worship personalities all-in just because they are successful. However it might well be the case that they're successful despite their personality issues, instead of "because of" them. When I was reading Peter Thiel's startup notes I kept thinking: He is successful, but it doesn't mean many of his thoughts make much sense or are actually applicable. Maybe he just succeeded despite holding some wrong beliefs.

I would hypothesize that some founders succeeded despite being jerks, but most jerks are not successful founders, and most successful founders aren't jerks.

In any case, if somebody has excellent ability in performing correct inferences and a healthy dose of self belief as he knows what he's doing and knows he has indeed accumulated more than many others trying the same thing, those can indeed be positive personality traits. However if one goes as far as really to "distort" the reality/self perception, I don't think it can end well at all and might well wreck havoc and can even be classic signs of depression. Objectively evaluating evidence, understanding that human beings are not fundamentally different, genuinely listening to others and immediately acknowledging own folly can only be a plus in all sorts of scenarios.

Re: Cognitive Distortions of People Who Get Stuff Done (2012) [pdf]

#138

Post by Hello71 »

SZJX wrote: post #134
Nasrudith wrote: post #118

He calls it cognitive distortions but doesn't seem to offer any proof that their perceptions are wrong. It is possible they were provided in the actual content as opposed to the power-points to PDF. An anorexic convinced that they are fat when they are 75 pounds and their body is falling apart from lack of calories is a distortion. These paradigms don't seem to fit the definition. There is always the possibility that…

I guess there's sometimes a difference of degree. As somebody mentioned below, if somebody is dead set on believing himself to be correct as to ignore all the evidence to the contrary, he'll be perceived as a jerk, is in for big troubles and this is actually a common trait of depression. Also I can hardly see how "dichotomous thinking" can ever be realistic. The real world is always grey. If somebody has excellent ab…

> The real world is always grey.

hm...

Re: Cognitive Distortions of People Who Get Stuff Done (2012) [pdf]

#139

Post by Confusion »

cam_l wrote: post #109
ggm wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you even in the room dumb-ass!!

..meta, and just enough so I am not totally sure I got the joke, or that it even was a joke. There was also a serious side to my question though, that we all have flaws in our reasoning, even in the reasoning we use to question our reasoning. Using heuristics to judge, just never turns out right all the time.

A piece of advice often given to people is "don't be the smartest person in your team", because then you don't have anyone to learn from.

I think that advice is wrong, because:

1) there are many different skills you can improve and you are probably not the most skilled one in the team in all of them

2) even if you are the most skilled, it doesn't mean you can't learn from less skilled people

3) 'smartest' is a strange criterion, because if there is one thing you can't learn, it's becoming more intelligent

However, if you truly believe there isn't much you can learn in your current work any more, possibly because of the skill levels of your teammates, switching to a different job is probably a good idea.

Re: Cognitive Distortions of People Who Get Stuff Done (2012) [pdf]

#140

Post by hyperpape »

nostrademons wrote: post #101
hyperpape wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why think the cost is low? I suspect there are a lot of people with founder type personalities who have wasted tons of money, time and goodwill chasing their ambition.

If you exhibit the cognitive distortions in the slideshow, this likely doesn't matter to you. Money, time, and goodwill are all meaningless if you don't achieve your ambition, per all 5 of them.

Just because you exhibit that distortion doesn't mean it's true! You might be less happy, even if you consciously think that the only thing that matters is chasing your ambition.
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