Live data from Hacker News

The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

gizmodo.com

131–140 of 341 posts

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#131

If you get a chance to visit a Smokejumper base, I highly recommend it. One of the things you learn is that everyone on the team is required to make all of their own equipment by hand. So all of these highly trained, ex-military guys spend days on end doing nothing but sewing clothes and packing parachutes. The reasons described: - Cheaper than contracting out everything - They have a better idea of the exact specifi…

There is one extremely good reason for packing your own parachute yourself.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#132
post #9

If you get a chance to visit a Smokejumper base, I highly recommend it. One of the things you learn is that everyone on the team is required to make all of their own equipment by hand. So all of these highly trained, ex-military guys spend days on end doing nothing but sewing clothes and packing parachutes. The reasons described: - Cheaper than contracting out everything - They have a better idea of the exact specifi…

The San Franciso Fire Department is using wooden ladders due to an abundance of overhead power lines. Which I think is the core issue, use other peoples tools unless you have some critical and unique requirement.

I think the low yield strength of aluminum also plays a role here, as one guy mentions. But I’m surprised thermal conductivity didn’t rate a mention.

There was a time when aluminum bikes were new but before the parts likely to bend were replaceable where many a bike owner had to buy a new frame due to misadventure. You can only bend aluminum once, then you’re done. When they started making cogsets with more than six gears they went with axles about half a centimeter wider, and you had a similar conversation. You can have the longer axles but you can’t change your mind after. They have to bend the stays slightly and there is no going back after that (and let me tell you, the mechanic got really quiet when they did the bend. You want to get it just right and every bike and every frame size is different. You pull until you feel the metal just start to give and just after that is your 5mm)

Steel frames could often be rebent. But they’re heavier and they don’t like moisture. And their strength to weight ratio is only about the same as wood. Probably also bad options for firefighters.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#133
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

x2. This seems like a case where there probably exists better options but the cost and friction of switching is too high. As long as the money's still coming there's no reason to look for alternatives though, especially when looking for alternatives would involve doing battle with a union over the jobs the alternatives would eliminate. Does SF really have that many more overhead power lines than other cities to warra…

All you're describing sounds way more expensive than a couple carpenters...simply being able to fix a ladder than toss it is a huge saving Its the little details: -- For example, a 3" Fiberglass Ibeam 10 feet long is ~$200, and only rated to 140 degrees. I can't readily find a more comparable product. -- your aluminum ladder with high temp rubber, also needs to be electrically insulated; so now you have to toss the w…

Carpenters earning San Francisco wages, who probably qualify for a pension after 25 years of service (because they are in the fire dept)

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say they weren't practical.

I mean, why would the shape change?

Because you can always improve on a design.

Here's the modern helmet maker for the UK fire services: http://www.rosenbauer.co.uk/equipment/helmets/

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#135

I can't think of any reason to acclimatize them this way instead of kiln drying/vaporizing them (depending) to roughly the right moisture content and waiting for 1% change (instead of kiln drying them to 0, or waiting forever for completely green wood) There are studies going back to the 70's by the forestry service (and others) showing there is no change in mechanical properties of pine/fir from these drying schedul…

I'm not sure how many degrees of separation this knowledge is from programming, but it's got to be one of the highest values I've ever seen on HN.

Bravo.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#137
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the right money, you can find the right ladder. It's not going to be cheap though, because you have to age the wood. I wonder if there is a way to age the wood to SF humidity/climate faster than real time. Just feels like there has to be.

Pressure? But it’s going to be mighty expensive to build a pressure chamber that big.

What pressure do they need, a length of pipe might do?

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#139
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should see the fire engines in mountain towns. They look like monster trucks.

Does each town fund and buy their own? Maybe that leads to more pride and respect for the equipment.

I'm not sure about local funding (I think there's a certain amount of state and county funding as well). I'm sure that differs for each one. They also often staff the fire department with local volunteers. I have a couple uncles that did this for years in a very small town (~600 people). The fire department was mostly used for preventing/stopping wildfires in the surrounding area (which occur fairly often). When I've visited in the past they would give us tours. They had mostly military vehicles which could make it over the terrain (the gama goat was pretty interesting) and a regular engine (which I believe was a hand-me-down from another city). They were proud of what they were doing there to help protect the community.

Re: The San Franciso Fire Department makes its own wooden ladders by hand

#140

I can't think of any reason to acclimatize them this way instead of kiln drying/vaporizing them (depending) to roughly the right moisture content and waiting for 1% change (instead of kiln drying them to 0, or waiting forever for completely green wood) There are studies going back to the 70's by the forestry service (and others) showing there is no change in mechanical properties of pine/fir from these drying schedul…

I'm not sure how many degrees of separation this knowledge is from programming, but it's got to be one of the highest values I've ever seen on HN. Bravo.

I've been woodworking heavily for 20+ years, and actually have run 3-4 kilns. Just FYI.
Post reply on HN