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Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

nytimes.com

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Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#131

Post by code_duck »

emodendroket wrote: post #122
code_duck wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My definition of fresh squeezed juice is putting whole fruit into a juicer. As far as 100g of sugar, yes, and that hypothetical stack of produce which is more than one person, especially a kid, would consume in a serving. And how much is in one can of Coke, which I’ve seen people give their children? 35 grams? In a far less healthy form, with anti-nutrients and no vitamins. This was the point of half my comment. No,…

Isn't the fact that you can consume way more fruit than normal through juice precisely the problem? If you're thinking about a meal replacement, rather than a replacement for water, a smoothie would probably be more filling (although still not as much as fresh fruit, I don't think).

No, I am suggesting that people consume healthy juice to replace entirely unhealthy drinks or sugar in snacks which many children consume, not meals. And sure, if you want to replace a meal, make it a smoothie by throwing in some protein powder or dairy, and putting some of the fruit directly in the blender. But that’s kind of a different topic.

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#132

Post by code_duck »

thatthatis wrote: post #125
code_duck wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My definition of fresh squeezed juice is putting whole fruit into a juicer. As far as 100g of sugar, yes, and that hypothetical stack of produce which is more than one person, especially a kid, would consume in a serving. And how much is in one can of Coke, which I’ve seen people give their children? 35 grams? In a far less healthy form, with anti-nutrients and no vitamins. This was the point of half my comment. No,…

Fresh squeezed won’t be appreciably healthier (on the sugar dimension). What makes juice unhealthy compared to intact fruits and vegetables is the mechanical separation of sugar from the fiber water matrix. This makes the sugar all available instantly. When you eat the whole carrot, your digestive system has to tear away the layers of the matrix one at a time to get the sugar out. When you juice you remove the matrix…

Yes, I’m aware of that. However, it’s important to compare it to products that are simply water with partially synthetic corn syrup, which millions of children consume regularly every single day. We are talking about drinks, after all, and it seems somewhat absurd to be suggesting that anyone eat solid fruit when they want to have a drink.

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#133

Post by vilmosi »

orev wrote: post #110
Puer wrote: post #34

Next, let's dispel the notion that fat is bad for you. It's the strangest thing to me to see parents feeding their kids "skim milk", which is really just milk flavored water, because whole milk "has fat" and therefore must make their children fat. I only drank whole milk as a kid. A glass with every meal. My parents never bought any juice or soda and me and all of my siblings grew up healthy and strong with no caviti…

You’re rolling too many things into one here. The concept that fat makes people fat as a direct consequence is false, but only if the calories gained from that fat are reduced elsewhere. Fat contains very dense calories, so consuming fat can lead to too many calories which leads to getting fat. That is not to say that a diet should be devoid of fat and replaced with sugar, just that the overall diet needs to be balan…

> So for that definition of “meant”, how can one say that milk formulated for bovine offspring is meant for human consumption as is?

Because we literally mutated ourselves to drink the stuff? I get that a lot of people don't have the gene to process milk... But a non-insignificant amount of people do.

So, if your not lactose intolarent, we are "meant" to drink milk into adulthood.

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#134

Post by vilmosi »

orev wrote: post #123
emodendroket wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Milk is homogenized so I am not sure how close 3.5% is to ideal. But I would say that humans are probably pretty well adapted to drinking their milk because they've been doing it for millennia. The thing about fat is that it can increase feelings of satiety.

> But I would say that humans are probably pretty well adapted to drinking their milk because they've been doing it for millennia. Only humans of Northern European descent. Everyone else is lactose intolerant after they are weaned.

That's still one in three humans.

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#135

Post by DanBC »

kareemm wrote: post #13

I love the strange looks we get when we tell extended family that our 1.5y old and 4y old kids don't drink juice. I had this exact conversation with a cousin of mine last week. She checked in with me before giving my child juice. When I told her we didn't give our kids juice this is how the conversation went: Q: "They don't drink juice? What do they drink?" A: "Water." Q: "Just water?" A: "Yep. If you want to get fan…

English NHS advice is very clear: don't give children juice, and if you do you must dilute it 1 part juice to 10 parts water.

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#136

Post by daturkel »

skj wrote: post #56
daturkel wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your last note about kids being wired on sugar, while pervasive and seemingly anecdotally supported, has not been proven out in the literature. Sugar has not been conclusively found to cause hyperactivity.

My son goes nuts when he has sugar (like ice cream or a cupcake), full stop. Has it not been shown in the literature because no one has tried an appropriately rigorous experiment, or because the appropriately rigorous experiment showed a different conclusion?

I believe you, and I've seen what appears to be the same effect first-hand, but it has not been replicated in controlled environments. Here's a non-scientific article which cites several studies which failed to find a correlation: https://www.thecut.com/2016/08/the-sugar-high-is-actually-ju...

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#137

Post by phs318u »

forapurpose wrote: post #112
phs318u wrote: post #36

For breakfast, my wife and I squeeze a single grapefruit and single orange (the old fashioned, manual and unfiltered way, keeping any "bits") and split and drink that. It's not much to look at - a little over half a short glass each. Basically we have the juice and some of the fibre from a single piece of fruit each. If you think about how much fruit it takes to create a 600ml bottle of juice its crazy. If you couldn…

Serious question: Why not eat the grapefruit and/or orange? That seems like less work, more food, and healthier (and personally I think it tastes better, but YMMV).

Fair question. I agree that the fruit itself tastes nicer. I could say I want to avoid having too much fibre (as I get plenty from other sources), but in reality I just find peeling oranges a PITA and contrary to your claim I find it quicker to cut in half and twist each half a few times on a juicer (plus I can just knock back the output).

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#138

Post by emodendroket »

code_duck wrote: post #131
emodendroket wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the fact that you can consume way more fruit than normal through juice precisely the problem? If you're thinking about a meal replacement, rather than a replacement for water, a smoothie would probably be more filling (although still not as much as fresh fruit, I don't think).

No, I am suggesting that people consume healthy juice to replace entirely unhealthy drinks or sugar in snacks which many children consume, not meals. And sure, if you want to replace a meal, make it a smoothie by throwing in some protein powder or dairy, and putting some of the fruit directly in the blender. But that’s kind of a different topic.

I think what's at issue is that parents are not thinking of juice as a treat -- they're thinking of it as something healthy for their children to drink all the time. In fact, it's, at best, a marginal improvement over soda and, because it does not fill them, will not serve to replace snacks.

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#139

Post by forapurpose »

phs318u wrote: post #137
forapurpose wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: Why not eat the grapefruit and/or orange? That seems like less work, more food, and healthier (and personally I think it tastes better, but YMMV).

Fair question. I agree that the fruit itself tastes nicer. I could say I want to avoid having too much fibre (as I get plenty from other sources), but in reality I just find peeling oranges a PITA and contrary to your claim I find it quicker to cut in half and twist each half a few times on a juicer (plus I can just knock back the output).

> I just find peeling oranges a PITA

You know, I've almost forgotten about this problem. Buy clementines; they are a kind of orange which happen to be easy to peel. For more ease, at the store you can feel which ones have looser skin; it's no exaggeration that they are easier to peel than plastic wrappers off of processed food. They don't even make a mess - no dripping, no sticky fingers, etc. I can't recommend them enough - one of the wonders of nature, or of selective breeding.

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#140

Post by emmanuel_1234 »

projektir wrote: post #92
godzillabrennus wrote: post #7

Sugar is bad. Juice has a lot of sugar.

Calories are bad. Sugar is very calorie dense. [I'm on the lookout for direct sugar-specifically-is-bad studies so I hope to get spammed with some]

That's a wrong argument. Sugar is three times less calorie dense than fat. (that's not an argument for sugar or against fat, just a fact).
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