How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores • Hacker News Board

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#131

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 2:20 PM UTC

cerealbad wrote: post #78

dragonwriter wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Western means not-communist, No, it doesn't. > since almost the entire world favors collectivism over individualism, almost no culture is 'western'. You can favor collectivism and still not be communist, so that doesn't follow even if the preceding claim were true. > The default position is socialism No, it's not, and you seem to be conflating socialism, collectivism, and communism, which are not the same thing. >…

18th Century contemporary European models? European or English? The Spanish are in a 200 year decline, French revolution led to Napoleon, Germany is still the Kingdom of Prussia, Russia will continue to be an Empire until 1917. Could you specifically name the models and tweaks? The founding fathers borrowed from English common law and government, because they were English. Did they set up a Tsardom? A dauphin? An emp…

> I am conflating socialism, collectivism and communism because they fall under an umbrella I have dubbed eastern thought, not because they are the same thing.

Your argument required that they were the same thing (and not merely under a common in umbrella) when said that (1) Western means non-Communist, (2) most of the world is collectivist and therefore not Western, and (3) the global “default” is socialist.

Also, socialism and communism are both Western in origin as philosophies, collectivism is more general and doesn't really have a single origin. To call all three “Eastern” thought is to invent novel terminology with no connection to the normal use of terms.

> I could've also said western means non-islamic

And been just as wrong. If you wanted to use a religious distinction and at least be close to being accurate, you could say “Western” means those societies that were on the West side of the Schism of 1054, their direct descendants, and those reshaped by them as a result of falling in war or who have deliberately modeled their societies on them without being compelled.

You'd still probably not quite be right, but you'd be close.

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#132

Post by pmontra » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 2:20 PM UTC

grzm wrote: post #121

pif wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> There is no ambiguity when someone says "I am American," as people from only one country identify themselves as such. Well, they have the right to do so when talking among themselves. When talking within an international audience, good manners suggest sticking to definitions that are internationally agreed upon. America is a continent, and US citizens are not more American than any Canadian, Argentinian or Peruvia…

In English (which is the language being used here), American is the demonym for citizens of the US, while Canadian, Mexican, Argentinian, Peruvian, and Brazilian are the typical demonyms of citizens of Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Peru, and Brazil. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonym I'm aware that there are some continent categorizations that group North and South America as one continent called America, so one…

In Italy we use the word "americani" (Americans) but we can also use the word "statunitensi" (that would be Unitedstaters). It's not as common but everybody understands it. IMHO the latter term is more appropriate but I agree that when speaking English one should use whatever the English speakers use (the same for any other language.) If you guys will change the way to refer to the citizens of the USA, I'll do it too.

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#133

Post by edanm » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 2:20 PM UTC

acheron wrote: post #123

edanm wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There is no ambiguity when someone says "I am American," as people from only one country identify themselves as such." That's... not really true? I mean, it's true in the sense that everyone "knows" that when you say American, you mean "someone from the US". But that doesn't mean it doesn't bother people from other countries in the Americas. And even if they speak e.g. Spanish, they will tend to also speak English,…

Please let me know which countries have "America" in their name and I will be happy to refer to people from any of them as "Americans".

That's actually not a bad point, and probably one of the reasons "American" caught on, together with the fact that "United States" is 1) ambiguous (other countries are/were called "United States of X", I believe and 2) very hard to turn into a catchy name for the people.

Doesn't negate the point of how some people feel about this.

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#134

Post by PebblesRox » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 2:23 PM UTC

sudhirj wrote: post #93

newnewpdro wrote: post #15

Until the kids all got smartphones... what chores? Raise your kids in a single shared room without any convenient forms of unlimited entertainment, where they must either witness all the work they're not helping with while bored and guilty or participate, and see how magically helpful they are.

Raising my kid in a house full of books, massive TV, most iPads, iPhone and MacBooks released lying around. The ideas still work. Cleans the floor, takes a great interest in making sure we’re all well fed, keeps stuff tidy, tries grooming, and stirs my coffee and blows on it if it’s too hot. A year and a half old.

My floors are the cleanest they've ever been because my 17-month-old nags me to vacuum. I've been meaning to get him a little Dirt Devil or something, so he can do it himself. (He tries with ours but it's just a little too big for him to manage.)

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#135

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 2:24 PM UTC

yesenadam wrote: post #130

cambalache wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friend, this was something that surprised me 15-20 years ago when thanks to the Internet I started to interact with Americans. At the end Western is a code word for White dominated places or sometimes just Anglo. This came from Huntington's Clash of Civilizations a profoundly ignorant work. As you wrote you can live in Buenos Aires, Sao Paulo or Mexico City, huge cosmopolitan places, maybe you have some recent rel…

That's one of the greatest comments I've read on here. 100% gringo here, UK-born Australian. About 10 years ago I started meeting latin americans online (also filipinos), I liked them so much I learnt spanish and was soon chatting online 95% with latin american friends. Played Clash of Clans in a colombian clan hehe, love watching online chess tournament commentary in spanish etc. Am starting to love Portuguese too.…

[deleted]

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#136

Post by st26 » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 2:28 PM UTC

gumby wrote: post #7

Resonating with a point in the article about telling kids "you're not involved in this task", I've noticed that my American neighbors are quite reluctant to allow their kids to use knives, light candles, fill glasses, and some cooking tasks that could result in a lot of mess. As what looks like a consequence those kids are rarely able to help get dinner on the table when they come over. An uncharitable explanation wo…

I don't have a toddler yet, but I do anticipate prohibiting knives for a while. I keep them very sharp; any of my chefs knives could easily remove small digits.

Another commentor mentioned nylon knives though, maybe this is an interesting possibility.

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#137

Post by Bakary » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 2:29 PM UTC

johnchristopher wrote: post #105

cambalache wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friend, this was something that surprised me 15-20 years ago when thanks to the Internet I started to interact with Americans. At the end Western is a code word for White dominated places or sometimes just Anglo. This came from Huntington's Clash of Civilizations a profoundly ignorant work. As you wrote you can live in Buenos Aires, Sao Paulo or Mexico City, huge cosmopolitan places, maybe you have some recent rel…

Reminds me of a quote about culture in star trek: somehow, in this utopy, they only know of Shakespeare,an edgy hard boiled detective character, Captain Proton and baseball. The vision americans had for the ST utopia was very los angeles centered.

Are there any notable SF works where it's more or less impossible to estimate the culture and era of the author?

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#138

Post by bmn__ » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 2:31 PM UTC

jordigh wrote: post #27

I know this is a bit petty, but I've stared to resent a little that even though I'm Mexican, I'm not considered Western. What am I, then? Eastern? Central? Southern? I'm not just arguing about the geography, but about the culture. I feel much more like a Canadian or a USian (or a Guatemalan) than I feel like an African, Middle Easter, East Asian, or South Asian. I speak the same languages as Europe, have been mostly…

> I've stared to resent a little that even though I'm Mexican, I'm not considered Western. […] about the culture

Don't worry, you are part of Western high culture. Anyone who would not acknowledge this as true is quite ignorant of history.

Many of my thread neighbours are astonishingly unable to provide an accurate definition of our culture or have the wrong idea in their head. The toilet and eating utensil preference is not important, but the shared values are important: guarantees of civil and human rights, living in freedom, rule of law, equality, individualism, tolerance, practising liberal democracy, society implementing market economy with free wage labour and historically shaped by Christianity and Enlightenment.

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#139

Post by hammock » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 2:40 PM UTC

yesenadam wrote: post #130

cambalache wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friend, this was something that surprised me 15-20 years ago when thanks to the Internet I started to interact with Americans. At the end Western is a code word for White dominated places or sometimes just Anglo. This came from Huntington's Clash of Civilizations a profoundly ignorant work. As you wrote you can live in Buenos Aires, Sao Paulo or Mexico City, huge cosmopolitan places, maybe you have some recent rel…

That's one of the greatest comments I've read on here. 100% gringo here, UK-born Australian. About 10 years ago I started meeting latin americans online (also filipinos), I liked them so much I learnt spanish and was soon chatting online 95% with latin american friends. Played Clash of Clans in a colombian clan hehe, love watching online chess tournament commentary in spanish etc. Am starting to love Portuguese too.…

You love "Latin culture" and hate "white culture" that's great man... But your argument doesn't really make any connection to the parent comment about what is Western and what is not

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#140

Post by Bakary » Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 2:42 PM UTC

yesenadam wrote: post #130

cambalache wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friend, this was something that surprised me 15-20 years ago when thanks to the Internet I started to interact with Americans. At the end Western is a code word for White dominated places or sometimes just Anglo. This came from Huntington's Clash of Civilizations a profoundly ignorant work. As you wrote you can live in Buenos Aires, Sao Paulo or Mexico City, huge cosmopolitan places, maybe you have some recent rel…

That's one of the greatest comments I've read on here. 100% gringo here, UK-born Australian. About 10 years ago I started meeting latin americans online (also filipinos), I liked them so much I learnt spanish and was soon chatting online 95% with latin american friends. Played Clash of Clans in a colombian clan hehe, love watching online chess tournament commentary in spanish etc. Am starting to love Portuguese too.…

It's unclear to what extent your comment is serious or facetious but I want to point out that even if we ignore the explicit racism, your vision of Latin Americans is also implicitly bigoted and condescending to a very large degree. In "warning" them against Anglo culture you are essentially implying that they are akin to magical innocent hobbit incapable of making decisions for themselves and who should never change so that they can continue accommodating your fantasy understanding of their lives.