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Anthony Bourdain has died

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Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#131

Post by fipar »

smolder wrote: post #101
fiblye wrote: post #20

The CNN article about his death had this: >Suicide is a growing problem in the United States. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published a survey Thursday showing suicide rates increased by 25% across the United States over nearly two decades ending in 2016. I remember a while back that the general public's tone on suicide was a lot less sober. More of a "man up" sort of attitude. With a growing list…

Everyone points to mental Illness. You can't want to die if you're not mentally ill right? But "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" -Jiddu Krishnamurti The illness is not all in the heads of the people killing themselves.

Thank you for that wonderful quote.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#132

Post by jdietrich »

hellofunk wrote: post #80
simongray wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently read the book "Lost Connections" by Johann Hari which covers this issue. In fact, it's a really a book about some deeper problems of Western society (where depression, anxiety, etc. has been on the rise for a long time), so the pharmaceutical pill-pushing and the fairly debunked "chemical imbalance" explanation of depression really just sets the backdrop of the story. He emphasizes - like you mention - soc…

I’m curious, if depression doesn’t have some basis in chemical roots, then why is it often hereditary? Like other forms of mental illness which are chemical and hereditary, depression also exhibits these characteristics.

It's entirely plausible that some people have hereditary character traits that make them less resilient to stress. They're not necessarily depressed because of their genes, but their genes make them more vulnerable to depression.

We observe a similar phenomenon with diseases like type 2 diabetes. People of south Asian origin have significantly higher risk of developing type 2 diabetes, even after controlling for diet and lifestyle factors. We have identified a cluster of genes that don't directly cause diabetes, but seem to increase the risk of developing the disease. You aren't doomed to develop diabetes if you have these genes, but you do need to be more careful about your diet and lifestyle.

https://www.nature.com/articles/ng.921

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#133

Post by ethbro »

specialist wrote: post #44
fiblye wrote: post #20

The CNN article about his death had this: >Suicide is a growing problem in the United States. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published a survey Thursday showing suicide rates increased by 25% across the United States over nearly two decades ending in 2016. I remember a while back that the general public's tone on suicide was a lot less sober. More of a "man up" sort of attitude. With a growing list…

"...only makes it worse..." I recently initiated a suicide intervention for a loved one. I would like to know what would make it better. Or at least what not to do. I am relentlessly optimistic (cancer survivor, a learned skill). I definitely feel like my efforts here ("talking someone off the ledge") had mixed results at best. Good stuff for other cancer victims. Not so good for depression, suicidal tendencies. Sure…

(Aside from the tragedy that is this news) Kitchens are wonderful microcosms of results oriented management.

You have a highly mobile and mercenary workforce, many alternate employment opportunities with similar benefits (e.g. none), a clearly defined goal (food, on time), high frequency of repetition and a short time to failure loop (great for learning or improving), a reputation with fickle customers to maintain, and a broader taste zeitgeist one has to chase.

It's a hard as nails job, but I learned a lot about management.

Also: un- or semi-documented immigrants usually work twice as hard as Americans, for terrible wages, and are the engine of almost every kitchen. So special note and tons of respect to all the people out there sweating to prepare food & improve their and/or their children's lives.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#134

Post by youdontknowtho »

Ntrails wrote: post #60

>, I can only hope that people as a whole start seeing it as a complex issue and the stigma of mental issues and stress can lessen so that people can get help Possibly inappropriate - but why do people immediately link suicide and mental illness? Why do we stand in judgement declaring it wrong to decide ones own fate? Am I not the master of my own existence and do I not have the right to make a decision on it without…

Mental illness is defined in terms of mental processes that interfere with your life. Suicide is the definition of a mental process that interferes with successfully living your life.

That being said, I agree with your point. One should be the master of their own existence from a certain viewpoint, but we aren't. Humans are social creatures and define our lives in terms of those relationships. Even if you are a solitary hermit, you define your life in relation to the people that aren't around. I'm not trying to be clever there.

I can see where suicide can be considered the most rational response given the right social or societal context. See any number of ritual suicide practices in human cultures.

Again, even the physician assisted suicide that we debate so often make sense in the context of maintaining some notion of dignity in one's familial or social group. When you add human suffering to that situation it becomes a moral imperative, I think. That's just me though.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#135

Post by loosetypes »

chatmasta wrote: post #66
Ntrails wrote: post #60

>, I can only hope that people as a whole start seeing it as a complex issue and the stigma of mental issues and stress can lessen so that people can get help Possibly inappropriate - but why do people immediately link suicide and mental illness? Why do we stand in judgement declaring it wrong to decide ones own fate? Am I not the master of my own existence and do I not have the right to make a decision on it without…

Suicide is inherently a selfish act, and I think that’s where the perception of it being “wrong” comes from. Sure you have the right to decide your own fate, but you should consider that you affect other people. In taking your own life you’re also fucking up the life of everyone who cares about you, forcing them into a state of grief and possibly causing them to blame themselves for what was ultimately a selfish act…

I can’t help but compare this to those angry with George R. R. Martin. Is it inherently selfish for him to not finish his book series? Maybe, but I don’t know if it’s the place of a reader to be arbiter.

My only secondhand anecdote of Anthony Bourdain - and it’s hardly even that - is from the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu community. Apparently he would train at Ralph Gracie’s on Howard when in SF. No commentary aside from this is often a deliberate attempt by an individual at bettering one’s self.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#136

Post by rectang »

tudelo wrote: post #116
ransom1538 wrote: post #23

I remember watching Robin Williams perform ~2009. He was hilarious and positive on stage at Cobb. After the show he hung out with us and Bing Gordon (his friend). His entire demeanor changed. Unable to smile, look people in the eyes, and holding back tears. People thought he would be funny off stage but he just was extremely anxious and wanted to leave asap. Anyhow, I feel like people (esp. famous people) hide the th…

Can you elaborate why you brought up your second paragraph? I'm not sure what statement you are trying to make.

Not the OP, but higher availability of guns is correlated with higher suicide rates (most notoriously in US mountains states like Wyoming), because it makes it easier to act on impulse when people hit their lowest points, rather than muddling through because they don't have easy means.

However, I don't see any reporting on how Bourdain died, only that he was found in a hotel room. So unless it comes to light that guns were involved (unlikely, because gunshots would have been heard), I don't think this sad event begs for a discussion of guns as opposed to many other topics around the issue of suicide.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#137

Post by daxorid »

jb1991 wrote: post #68
69132 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That whole "chemical imbalance" thing is a myth.

Entirely untrue and offensive. Propagating this is dangerous and fuels the stigma that makes treatment harder. Not all mental illness is chemical, but a lot very much is.

I'm going to defend 69132 here.

1. We know that the symptoms of many different varieties of mental illness have been helped by the administration of SSRIs and other drugs that alter brain chemistry.

2. But what we most assuredly do not know is that mental illness patients have detectably different brain chemistry from baseline.

We assume from (1) that (2) follows, but we have no actual evidence of (2). Herein lies the problem. We cannot make a scientific statement on (2) predicated only on (1).

In this specific sense, OP is correct. And the downvotes are unfair. And more research is needed.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#138

Post by soared »

anoncoward111 wrote: post #35
DanBC wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and some professions (especially doctors) are affected more than others. Doctors don't have higher rates of death by suicide. I think female doctors do have a higher rate of death by suicide than women in general. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/mm6525a1.htm

Actually that is the statistic I was thinking of (I read an article from a formerly-suicidal female doctor). I assumed that the trend applied to males too but now I am quite curious as to why it does not apply. Regional statistics would be helpful too- some have thought that Finns and Russians carry a genetic marker for suicidal tendencies.

Males die of suicide more often because they use more successful methods. It makes sense that a female doctor would be much more successful than the average female due to her education.

Most women use pills, men use guns.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#139

Post by donatj »

bevinahally wrote: post #58

This is a very sad day for me. I have never expressed this to anyone before. Anthony Bourdain was one of my heroes. Anthony changed the way that I view the world and inspired me to explore the world's rich tapestry of life. We have lost someone who truly was a world citizen who built the culture that "different" could be good. The man's struggles through addiction and journey to peak physical fitness in his late 50s…

Yes. The way this man LIVED made me forever envious. He was and is still a personal hero of mine as well.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#140

Post by jm__87 »

Ntrails wrote: post #60

>, I can only hope that people as a whole start seeing it as a complex issue and the stigma of mental issues and stress can lessen so that people can get help Possibly inappropriate - but why do people immediately link suicide and mental illness? Why do we stand in judgement declaring it wrong to decide ones own fate? Am I not the master of my own existence and do I not have the right to make a decision on it without…

Do you really think Anthony Bourdain wanted to die and hurt the people who care about him? Suicide is what people do when they simply cannot go on any longer - this says nothing about whether they wish they could keep going or not.
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