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Computer History Museum Makes Eudora Email Client Source Code Available

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Re: Computer History Museum Makes Eudora Email Client Source Code Available

#131
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is POP3 horribly inefficient? Lack of an equivalent to the IMAP COMPRESS extension?

POP3 is only efficient if you download all mail to the client and immediately remove it from the server. But nobody does that, everyone leaves their mail on the server. Then everytime you synchronize the server has to go through all the mail it has to see what you don’t have, which is very inefficient if you have 10000 mails in your inbox, like most people have these days. It’s optimized for a usecase that doesn’t ex…

I don't think it is at all fair to call POP3 inefficient on this basis. It is fine if you use it in the way it is intended (and presumably optimised) for. It was designed as a delivery mechanism back when people didn't tend to have permanent connections and space on servers wasn't cheap. Users wanted mail locally for disconnected use and servers wanted rid of it once delivered onward.

Where it is not the right tool for the job, use the tool that is instead (IMAP presumably in this case).

Re: Computer History Museum Makes Eudora Email Client Source Code Available

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done two talks on Cloudbleed (at Virus Bulletin 2017 and at RSA 2018). I would be happy to do a talk about it again somewhere.

Looks like they just put your RSA talk online: https://youtu.be/hojAgTsTeCA

[deleted]

Re: Computer History Museum Makes Eudora Email Client Source Code Available

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

POP3 is only efficient if you download all mail to the client and immediately remove it from the server. But nobody does that, everyone leaves their mail on the server. Then everytime you synchronize the server has to go through all the mail it has to see what you don’t have, which is very inefficient if you have 10000 mails in your inbox, like most people have these days. It’s optimized for a usecase that doesn’t ex…

I don't think it is at all fair to call POP3 inefficient on this basis. It is fine if you use it in the way it is intended (and presumably optimised) for. It was designed as a delivery mechanism back when people didn't tend to have permanent connections and space on servers wasn't cheap. Users wanted mail locally for disconnected use and servers wanted rid of it once delivered onward. Where it is not the right tool f…

Sure, it’s fine if you need to do something nobody wants. Great.

Re: Computer History Museum Makes Eudora Email Client Source Code Available

#134
post #11

Damn. The "bad" words have been sanitized. Seeing the programmers' frustrations as they appear in the comments enhances the experience when viewing old code like this.

It's funny how in most corporate/commercial code past 2005 or 2010, you'll rarely ever see profanity in comments. I've never put profanity, or even any jokes, in comments. I really try to keep my professional code professional. Even on my own OSS projects I tend not to do that anymore.

I don't cuss in my professional code because I work with a lot of programmers in another country, and I think it would just cause confusion. "What means 'shitpig' in the constructor?"

Re: Computer History Museum Makes Eudora Email Client Source Code Available

#135
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is POP3 horribly inefficient? Lack of an equivalent to the IMAP COMPRESS extension?

POP3 is only efficient if you download all mail to the client and immediately remove it from the server. But nobody does that, everyone leaves their mail on the server. Then everytime you synchronize the server has to go through all the mail it has to see what you don’t have, which is very inefficient if you have 10000 mails in your inbox, like most people have these days. It’s optimized for a usecase that doesn’t ex…

Whoo-hoo! I'm a nobody!

Re: Computer History Museum Makes Eudora Email Client Source Code Available

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, if you lived in Eastern Europe, The Bat1[1] - and it is still actively supported! I switched to Opera Mail because it was convenient to have the browser and email client in one software (which is also freeware), but that went with the Chropera move. [1] https://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/thebat/

The Bat was quite nice! I used it for a while but finally switched to the Japanese client "Becky Mail", ugly but quite functional. I still have some backups in a zip drive I should restore...

> some backups in a zip drive

Hehe, I have one of those, too. But unfortunately it is an external drive, and none of the computers I own have a parallel port...

Re: Computer History Museum Makes Eudora Email Client Source Code Available

#137
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is POP3 horribly inefficient? Lack of an equivalent to the IMAP COMPRESS extension?

POP3 is only efficient if you download all mail to the client and immediately remove it from the server. But nobody does that, everyone leaves their mail on the server. Then everytime you synchronize the server has to go through all the mail it has to see what you don’t have, which is very inefficient if you have 10000 mails in your inbox, like most people have these days. It’s optimized for a usecase that doesn’t ex…

> But nobody does that, everyone leaves their mail on the server.

Absolutely not. I have a personal e-mail address which is IMAP and a shared mailbox with my wife which is POP (I don't want my mail read if she reads it). Mail clients are configured to leave mail on the server for 1 month. It's not complicated.

Re: Computer History Museum Makes Eudora Email Client Source Code Available

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is at all fair to call POP3 inefficient on this basis. It is fine if you use it in the way it is intended (and presumably optimised) for. It was designed as a delivery mechanism back when people didn't tend to have permanent connections and space on servers wasn't cheap. Users wanted mail locally for disconnected use and servers wanted rid of it once delivered onward. Where it is not the right tool f…

Sure, it’s fine if you need to do something nobody wants. Great.

It seems that something that doesn't meet your needs (but did match many people's requirements in the past and may still meet some people's needs now) exists is causing you some offence.

Have you been "burned" by problems with POP3 in some specific way that has made you feel this bitter towards it rather then using the right tool for a job it presumably isn't right for and moving on? Or are you being forced to use it in some circumstance?

> something nobody wants

You are not everybody. Just because you can't imagine a valid use case these days does not mean that one does not exist. While IMAP-with-local-caching can replace most use cases for POP3, does it replace all of them in an optimal manner?

Re: Computer History Museum Makes Eudora Email Client Source Code Available

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

POP3 is only efficient if you download all mail to the client and immediately remove it from the server. But nobody does that, everyone leaves their mail on the server. Then everytime you synchronize the server has to go through all the mail it has to see what you don’t have, which is very inefficient if you have 10000 mails in your inbox, like most people have these days. It’s optimized for a usecase that doesn’t ex…

Whoo-hoo! I'm a nobody!

Me too. Nobody uses it (for large values of nobody).
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