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US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

zdnet.com

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Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#131

I've just started using Signal and was surprised by how good the call quality is. For those that aren't aware, Signal calls are encrypted, so you effectively give nothing to the cell carrier when you make a call through it (except that you used some data).

While it is true that Signal's call quality is great, this doesn't seem relevant to the fact that cell providers can track you regardless of what apps you use.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#132

I've just started using Signal and was surprised by how good the call quality is. For those that aren't aware, Signal calls are encrypted, so you effectively give nothing to the cell carrier when you make a call through it (except that you used some data).

> Signal calls are encrypted, so you effectively give nothing to the cell carrier when you make a call through it (except that you used some data).

Maybe not to your carrier, but presumably Google could capture some form of metadata.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#135
post #102

Isn’t carrier IQ been always doing that?

Carrier IQ was far more invasive than just location. Their "Experience Manager" was supposedly tracking every app launch, time spent in that app, metrics on key & button presses within that app, and other misc interactions.

They got accused of being a "keylogger" which they rightly said they weren't, but that ignores how invasive and creepy Experience Manager was (is?). Their whole argument was that carriers can use this app data to see what apps are draining battery, which is kind of bs since carriers are in no position to resolve battery issues or advise customers.

The reality is that carriers wanted more information on how customers were using their devices, Carrier IQ provided that raw data, and both got rich. They survived the scandal because the critics focused on keylogging, instead of the highly invasive usage analytics which it really was.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? Government Big Brother can put me in jail just because a cell phone record said I was near a crime while being committed. Corporate Big Brother can only make money from me.

Here the difference shows pretty clearly, as I would trust the government more than any company. Government serves the people, while companies mostly care just about profit. Any of companies' privacy concerns are related to legal and PR risks. Being from Northern Europe, I do feel I have a good reason to trust the government. It's a machine that is working for my benefit, with my tax money, and is held accountable vi…

“Here the difference shows pretty clearly, as I would trust the government more than any company.”

What the?

”Government serves the people”

Wait seriously?

”Being from Northern Europe,”

OH. Yea, I’m pretty sure there is a cultural difference we just aren’t going to agree on. I don’t know what country you are from but I’m going to guess it’s population is pretty small and what you effectively have is small government anyway.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#137

Throwaway account. I work in location / mapping / geo. Some of us have been waiting for this to blow (which it hasn't yet). The public has zero idea how much personal location data is available. It's not just your cell carrier. Your cell phone chip manufacturer, GPS chip manufacturer, phone manufacturer and then pretty much anyone on the installed OS (android crapware) is getting a copy of your location data. Usually…

How can one prevent this and still carry a cell phone? Would keeping one's phone in a faraday bag defeat this constant tracking?

A good start would be using a prepaid mobile phone (paid with cash, via an intermediary to avoid appearing on store CCTV), plus using phone apps that are not tied to your real identity. A Faraday bag for the phone when it's not in use.

Honestly, it just depends on how paranoid you want to get, and who your adversary is.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#138
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is once it's at the cell carrier level it doesn't even matter if you use a dumb phone. They know roughly where you are based on tower triangulation.

As an amateur radio operator, I would expect nothing less for carrying a highly networked radio transceiver with loads of sensors including geopositioning. Simply put: don't want to be tracked? Put your phone in a lead sealed box or leave it at home. Tracking only tracks the phone , not your person.

So basically either give up your right for privacy or don't use any new technology? That doesn't look practical. A better idea would be to ban cell carriers (and anyone else) from using location data for anything except explicitly permitted by law, like help in emergencies or conducting investigations.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#139
post #97
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Qualcomm IZat location services did a quick check, it's not on my phone (SD 820 SoC). >other location-based trustzone applets remain running even on custom ROMs. I have no doubt some proprietary blobs still remain on custom ROMs, but do those actually send back location data to the OEM?

> did a quick check How? Thanks.

searched up the package name, and according to https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/software-hacking/ar..., it's installed at /system/priv-app/xtra_t_app, which was not on my phone.

Also noticed that most posts had mentions of IZat in their location settings, which my phone did not have (in lineageos or stock)

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