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WHOIS blackout period likely starting in May

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Re: WHOIS blackout period likely starting in May

#131

Post by obscura »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #86
tcd wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's not how the law works, sorry about that. Every human has rights that cannot simply be waived because a website says so. Everyone has a right to privacy, and that's what the GDPR is about ensuring for EU subjects. Your thinking is extinct and I strongly suggest changing it, or fading away like everyone else who feels the same way.

> Everyone has a right to privacy This is far from an absolute. Each country more or less dictates the rights of their people, and many countries do not directly provide this right. As an example, the Indian supreme court only declared it a right last year, and most articles talking about it only list a very select few other countries as ones that provide this right.

And even where it is a right, it's not an absolute right - it has to be balanced with other rights and may be limited by laws.

Re: WHOIS blackout period likely starting in May

#132

Post by mikekchar »

MR4D wrote: post #91
f2n wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how any of those are remotely related to whois being removed. It's not like it represented anyone that could feasibly be sued before, just a whoisguard service, usually

In the US, we have different sites where you can look up patent information. In fact, IBM and Microsoft run this one, which is a global database. Article: https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-ibm-arm-back-open-pa... Site: http://oropo.net/ So my question, is if Whois had to take their site offline due to GDPR, then will things like this go offline? My concern is that GDPR will have a chilling effect not just on fr…

Not a lawyer, but I don't think it will affect these kinds of sites. The personal information collected in patents is collected due to government regulation. This is one of the lawful bases for using the data. The data is public information (as a result of that regulation). Affected people will have to be notified when creating a patent that their information will be used in that way -- something I think patent offices already do.

There are lots things that fall under that category, but I haven't really looked into it deeply because in my work we don't have any data collected due to government regulations.

Re: WHOIS blackout period likely starting in May

#133

Post by obscura »

MR4D wrote: post #83

This is stupid. What happens next - do patents and copyrights have owner’s right to be forgotten? If so, then who do you sue for stealing your copyright? The intent is good - let me be clear about that. But the implementation is having second order affects that are going to f * with things in a big way because it wasn’t thought through as thoroughly as it should have been. * * Key thought here is that it might be ext…

The GDPR was proposed in 2012 and has been heavily discussed since then. It was adopted in 2016 and as of 25 May 2018 will be enforceable.

Anyone who uses the data of EU citizens should have known about it. They certainly had plenty of time to consider the effects of it on their own operations.

Re: WHOIS blackout period likely starting in May

#134

Post by MR4D »

obscura wrote: post #133
MR4D wrote: post #83

This is stupid. What happens next - do patents and copyrights have owner’s right to be forgotten? If so, then who do you sue for stealing your copyright? The intent is good - let me be clear about that. But the implementation is having second order affects that are going to f * with things in a big way because it wasn’t thought through as thoroughly as it should have been. * * Key thought here is that it might be ext…

The GDPR was proposed in 2012 and has been heavily discussed since then. It was adopted in 2016 and as of 25 May 2018 will be enforceable. Anyone who uses the data of EU citizens should have known about it. They certainly had plenty of time to consider the effects of it on their own operations.

ICANN is a US company. Technically, the rules don’t apply to them, because it is an EU law, not a global one.

However, the maliciousness that the EU is proposing to go after any company, whether they operate in the EU or not, is going to break things in ways they have not thought of.

So regardless of how long ago it came out (and trust me, 2 years is nothing for dealing with something like this), it still wasn’t well thought thru.

For what it’s worth, this law affects my company, as we have clients that are EU citizens. But only those that live in the US with a social security number. (I work in finance). My company has one office with just a few people. I never heard about GDPR until earlier this year. So my question is what happens if someone files a GDPR issue with my company? My clients information is available all over the world via login to our staff. We travel to various places. So what happens now? Some law in a place I’ve not been in a decade (exempting EU-controlled islands in the Caribbean) has just put my company in a strange legal position. Am I going to spend tens of thousands of dollars with lawyers and consultants to figure it out? No. Why? Because it would put me out of business. Plus, as a financial company, I have a requirement for saving information for 7 years. All data? Hard to say, as the IS law leaves that discretion to my company (as it should be).

So this law was horribly thought thru. I’ll probably get downvotes for this, but wait a couple years and see how crazy fines affect companies large and small for innocent issues, and I’ll be proven right.

Re: WHOIS blackout period likely starting in May

#135

Post by MR4D »

icebraining wrote: post #125
MR4D wrote: post #83

This is stupid. What happens next - do patents and copyrights have owner’s right to be forgotten? If so, then who do you sue for stealing your copyright? The intent is good - let me be clear about that. But the implementation is having second order affects that are going to f * with things in a big way because it wasn’t thought through as thoroughly as it should have been. * * Key thought here is that it might be ext…

If so, then who do you sue for stealing your copyright? I don't even understand the question. Why would anyone "stealing" your copyright or patent register themselves in those databases? The purpose of those databases is to let the legitimate inventor/author inform everyone else that they "own" the thing, not to catch infringers.

Yikes - I worded that poorly! What I’m trying to say is that now proving ownership of something is more expensive. I can’t just say, “here’s the link to my patent” because no names will be attached.

So somebody’s random claim would look just as real as mine.

Sure, lawyers will have access to this, but now you have to talk with a lawyer to see if that job candidate really does own the patent.

It’s things like this that are stupid.

Re: WHOIS blackout period likely starting in May

#136

Post by xfitm3 »

jedberg wrote: post #34
kbar13 wrote: post #2

domain registration data is in a weird place for the modern internet. I can see the value of having a real registry when it was first developed, but now it seems like a pretty easy way for people to shoot themselves in the foot with regards to privacy. Also, some registrars charge a premium for WHOIS privacy. It should not cost extra to have your legal name and address to be hidden from the entirety of the internet.

When you buy a house, your name and the purchase price are public information. Any one at any time can look up who owns a house, how much they paid for it, and how much they pay in property tax every year. I get a ton of spam because of this. However, I'd rather have this system than one in which all the owners are secret. I've had to look up owner information before to contact owners of various properties, and havin…

There is no reason for anyone to contact me outside of methods I publish.

Re: WHOIS blackout period likely starting in May

#137

Post by trumped »

akhatri_aus wrote: post #102
clay_the_ripper wrote: post #69

I really wish WHOIS would go away forever. There is absolutely no point to it. If you don’t pay to get your name private, you get SPAMMED to such an incredible degree, it’s absolutely awful. Literally 10+ calls a day, emails voicemails. So you have to buy the “privacy protection” thing, which defeats the whole purpose anyway. All WHOIS does is create an industry of people selling privacy to WHOIS. This whole narrativ…

Whois can also be used to identify who owns IP blocks. Which is crucial to many applications such as security. If you don't want your personal information to be visible thats very different to the full range of what whois can do. You can always use a proxy so there are options for privacy available. I've never got a single spam email/call from my whois data.

Try this: https://whois.arin.net/ui/advanced.jsp

Re: WHOIS blackout period likely starting in May

#138

Post by icebraining »

MR4D wrote: post #135
icebraining wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If so, then who do you sue for stealing your copyright? I don't even understand the question. Why would anyone "stealing" your copyright or patent register themselves in those databases? The purpose of those databases is to let the legitimate inventor/author inform everyone else that they "own" the thing, not to catch infringers.

Yikes - I worded that poorly! What I’m trying to say is that now proving ownership of something is more expensive. I can’t just say, “here’s the link to my patent” because no names will be attached. So somebody’s random claim would look just as real as mine. Sure, lawyers will have access to this, but now you have to talk with a lawyer to see if that job candidate really does own the patent. It’s things like this tha…

The GDPR doesn't have a blanket ban on publishing personal data! The problem with the WHOIS database is that it's forced upon individuals. The EU has no problem with a WHOIS database that allows people to freely opt-in to publish their data (Whois "privacy" services don't count - privacy must be the default, and you certainly can't be forced to pay for it).

The reason the database is going dark is that ICANN has completely bungled this process, failing to address the GDPR in time (it was adopted two years ago!), and so now they have no choice but to take it down until they can fix it. And it might be that the future WHOIS database won't let you publish data, but that's ICANN's decision, not the EU's.

So to take it to the patent database, all that means is that the patent database must ask consent from the patent author and owner (assuming it's an individual) to show their personal data.

--

But let's assume they actually couldn't show names at all (which, again, is not the case). All you'd have to do with to get a (digitally signed) certificate from the patent office saying that you're the author, and then you'd send a copy of that to whoever you want. Hardly a terrible thing.

Re: WHOIS blackout period likely starting in May

#139

Post by detaro »

icebraining wrote: post #138
MR4D wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yikes - I worded that poorly! What I’m trying to say is that now proving ownership of something is more expensive. I can’t just say, “here’s the link to my patent” because no names will be attached. So somebody’s random claim would look just as real as mine. Sure, lawyers will have access to this, but now you have to talk with a lawyer to see if that job candidate really does own the patent. It’s things like this tha…

The GDPR doesn't have a blanket ban on publishing personal data! The problem with the WHOIS database is that it's forced upon individuals. The EU has no problem with a WHOIS database that allows people to freely opt-in to publish their data (Whois "privacy" services don't count - privacy must be the default, and you certainly can't be forced to pay for it). The reason the database is going dark is that ICANN has comp…

And with state-sanctioned things like patents, the creator or rights-holder being published could always be a legal requirement (not sure if it is, wouldn't surprise me though)

Re: WHOIS blackout period likely starting in May

#140

Post by [deleted] »

detaro wrote: post #139
icebraining wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GDPR doesn't have a blanket ban on publishing personal data! The problem with the WHOIS database is that it's forced upon individuals. The EU has no problem with a WHOIS database that allows people to freely opt-in to publish their data (Whois "privacy" services don't count - privacy must be the default, and you certainly can't be forced to pay for it). The reason the database is going dark is that ICANN has comp…

And with state-sanctioned things like patents, the creator or rights-holder being published could always be a legal requirement (not sure if it is, wouldn't surprise me though)

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