'Anti-authority', even with scare quotes around it.
God forbids somebody uses the word "anarchist"...
'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi
131–140 of 237 posts
Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
The public access point SSIDs are usually "-NYC Mesh-" or "nycmesh" followed by location.
Are you using Ubiquity HW? If not, why? They are cheap as hell and awesome. Actually - what you should do, is have a customer pay a fee of $100 to connect to the system - and take that $100 and buy another mesh was with each customer on boarding. https://unifi-mesh.ubnt.com/#products
I think you misunderstand the goals of this community-run mesh. The FAQ has some info on why they don't charge, who runs routers, and what they're trying to accomplish.
Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi
#133Actual ISP network engineer here: I'm sure these people are having fun and all, but it's insignificant in the larger scheme of things. (correction to original post: I did not at first see an ASN for them, or announcements of their own IP space. They have an ASN and announce two /24s, and peer at one physical location in metro NYC). Real five nines network infrastructure takes significant capital investment. This part…
The whole 5 nines aspect is interesting. I wonder why there isn't more cheaper more unreliable service available for customers built on cheaper hardware using less reliable infrastructure. Laser Links to cross distances etc. I imagine consumers would be fine with 95% uptime of a gigabit connection compared to 99,99999% uptime of 16mbit.
>I imagine consumers would be fine with 95% uptime of a gigabit connection compared to 99,99999% uptime of 16mbit.
I can guarantee that nobody would be okay with 95% uptime. That means that your Internet access is down for over an hour every day. Given that people go berserk when their Internet is down for even a few minutes, 95% uptime will be unacceptable to consumers.
Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi
#134Förderverein Freie Netzwerke e. V. has been doing this, rather successfully, in Germany since 2003 [0] Similar projects exist in Austria (FunkFeuer) and Switzerland (Openwireless). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freifunk
There are several distributions for mesh-networks:
- Gluon is the most popular: https://gluon.readthedocs.io - Libremesh is more flexible: https://libremesh.org/
Like NYC Mesh both are based on OpenWRT.org a wonderful distribtion for wireless devices from 4mb flash / 32mb memory up to 64bit x86 support.
Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google fiber had over 450,000 customers and was thus several times Webpass size when they acquired them. They have continually grown over time and by any reasonable measure very successful.
> Google Fiber to cut jobs and halt expansion of US internet service > Ambitious – and expensive – high-speed internet program will stop plans to expand to new cities as business reportedly under pressure to cut costs https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/26/google-fi... Although it looks like they've started expanding again as per https://www.techrepublic.com/article/the-rise-and-fall-and-r... . So perhaps…
There are zero nationwide high speed ISP's. So, it's kind of a question of how do you measure success.
Yea, google paused expansion for ~3 months but building a nationwide network is a ~100 billion dollar investment. The only option to get there quickly is a LEO satellite constellation, otherwise it's going to be a really long slog with lot's of local governments getting involved.
Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
Digi Desert LLC, which existed in 2010? Looks like that's the AS of some entity that predates the existence of your project and current public relations effort. You announce a whopping total of two v4 /24. Kudos for having enough clue to know that you needed to establish a presence at a major IX, and actually doing it, because it looks like you're adding peers. But your actual network presence is minuscule. How do yo…
I don't think you get what we are doing at all! Anyway we are in 375 Pearl with a lease and it has most of your long list, diesel generators etc. We compete on price (donation only)
Hello from just across the Hudson River! Keep up the great work. You are finding a way, despite what doubters and naysayers think! You will know what is possible by trying.
Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
I love HN but there is a very healthy level of suspicion for developing different ways of attacking already-solved problems. May not be the best example but look at the comments on announcing Dropbox. Doing > Wanting to do in nearly every instance. So to borrow from popular culture, Just Do It, and Haters Gonna Hate.
Yeah, I just figured that a pro-anonymity, pro-startup, pro-charity, anti-monopoly, anti-comcast community would see this as a win on all fronts. At least that was my read on this community.
My reading of the negativity in this thread isn't "here is why I am opposed to your project" but rather "here is why your project seems like it will fail". The latter isn't anti-startup or pro-comcast at all.
Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
> At NYC salaries? In a greenfield scenario, I could easily spend $900,000 a year in just payroll and benefits I kind of don't understand what you're getting at here. They're a nonprofit. The majority of their work is coming from volunteers. They aren't paying New York salaries. This is like going to Linus and saying "You can't possibly expect Linux to be sustainable - do you have any idea how much money Microsoft pa…
> The majority of their work is coming from volunteers. > the difference is that people and companies donate their time/money because they want the project to succeed. And that volunteering time and energy are probably valuable then, especially if they can do the work of a real ISP. I think one real question to ask though is what is actually more efficient—donating volunteer time and energy to a nonprofit, or donatin…
FTE can work a few extra hours a week at a non profit more easily than they can make more money at their job and donate that. They may also enjoy their time and learn valuable skills which make the time vs money argument misleading, because for most tech workers they are very different pools.
Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi
#139Actual ISP network engineer here: I'm sure these people are having fun and all, but it's insignificant in the larger scheme of things. (correction to original post: I did not at first see an ASN for them, or announcements of their own IP space. They have an ASN and announce two /24s, and peer at one physical location in metro NYC). Real five nines network infrastructure takes significant capital investment. This part…
The whole 5 nines aspect is interesting. I wonder why there isn't more cheaper more unreliable service available for customers built on cheaper hardware using less reliable infrastructure. Laser Links to cross distances etc. I imagine consumers would be fine with 95% uptime of a gigabit connection compared to 99,99999% uptime of 16mbit.
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Re: 'Anti-authority' tech rebels take on ISPs, connect NYC with cheap Wi-Fi
#140Actual ISP network engineer here: I'm sure these people are having fun and all, but it's insignificant in the larger scheme of things. (correction to original post: I did not at first see an ASN for them, or announcements of their own IP space. They have an ASN and announce two /24s, and peer at one physical location in metro NYC). Real five nines network infrastructure takes significant capital investment. This part…
Agree the article is BS. Mesh networking is incompatible with QoS. So they can surely deliver crappy Internet cheaply. More than that? Nope. That'd need serious infrastructure such as licensed P2P, 60GHz short haul links, leased fiber. $$$$$
Oh, and they'd need peering: more $$$$$