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E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

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131–140 of 273 posts

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#131

Fuck you US Government is more like it. Oh, and the assholes that vote these idiots into office over and over again. I don't care if it's Pelosi/Boxer or Inhofe/Cruz, they all are pieces of shit.

I will never understand the people who dump blame on the CEOs without moving on to why the government doesn't hold them accountable.

The CEO's job is to create value for shareholders. The government's job is to create laws that benefit society and enforce them.

Fine, a lot of CEOs suck but it's basically their job to suck to the degree allowed by the law. Why don't we work on changing the laws instead of endless complaining about the CEOs.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might argue that repurposing old computers and licenses attached to said computer might have an (minimal) effect on Microsofts revenue since that might lead to potential sells not happening. That is the only reason I can see why they would pursue a case like this. But I cannot phantom how they cannot see how this will backfire quite badly, making them look both greedy and environmentally disconnected.

whats next? "Diet coach Daisy, sent to jail as McDonalds loses customers" "CPU designer Claire, sent to jail as its optimized caching algorithm lowers demand for RAM sales" "Louis Pasteur, unearthed from the grave, incarcerated as milk sales fall due to longer shelf-life"

None of your examples actually use intellectual property of McDonald’s, ram or milk products.

It’s like selling your own burgers with less calories and calling them Big Macs and selling them next door from McDonald’s store. You can’t do that according to law

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#133

As a CEO, you can have a business model that is ethically and morally wrong without getting into jail. As a CEO, you can ignore obvious security flaws leading to 100 million social security numbers getting leaked without getting into jail. As a CEO, you can sexually harass your employees without getting into jail. Try and save the world by repurpose old computers, causing one of the biggest companies in the world to…

> you can have a business model that is ethically and morally wrong without getting into jail Rule of law. You go to jail for breaking the law, not for being unethical or immoral. Societies which forget this distinction fall fast. (Legislation, turning morals and ethics into laws, is the intermediating process your complaint more properly addresses.)

Sexual harassment can and does frequently rise to the level of criminal conduct. Dave McClure's behavior, which he will face no legal repercussions for, comes to mind.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#134

As a CEO, you can have a business model that is ethically and morally wrong without getting into jail. As a CEO, you can ignore obvious security flaws leading to 100 million social security numbers getting leaked without getting into jail. As a CEO, you can sexually harass your employees without getting into jail. Try and save the world by repurpose old computers, causing one of the biggest companies in the world to…

Don't forget environmental disasters, they just get a nice golden parachute to leave

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#135
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not speaking about this case specifically, but the existence of other more serious and/or violent crimes does not negate the impact of small crimes. You can't just say "yeah well there's a lot of unsolved murders so what about those?" as some sort of indictment against police officers enforcing laws.

It's one thing if they could have proven the case without this fabricated sting. Setting that up just to put the nails in the coffin of someone trying to do good seems pretty evil to me. Why the hell didn't the prosecutors just ring up the guy and say, "Hey, Microsoft is pretty pissed about these disks. If you don't [destroy them / remove their logo] we'll have to prosecute you." They have exactly that kind of discre…

Lundgren intended to sell the disks to computer refurbisher shops, this is a fact of the case. In theory, they could have found a shop he intended to sell the discs to and caught him in the act. The OP was lamenting the waste of resources that went into setting up a sting, I would imagine the time involved in the above mentioned scenario would be much greater.

Lundgren wasn't setup, he wasn't coerced into doing something illegal. He was or was planning to do it and they just called him up and asked to be a customer.

This is similar to busting people for prostitution. You can either spend extraordinary time and effort in surveillance to catch them in the act. Or you can just dress in civilian clothing and approach them.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#136

Fuck you US Government is more like it. Oh, and the assholes that vote these idiots into office over and over again. I don't care if it's Pelosi/Boxer or Inhofe/Cruz, they all are pieces of shit.

Actually, voters have no say in who gets to make these prosecutorial decisions, and that’s a huge problem. Unless a prosecutor files a case against someone, there is no case, no matter what they’ve done. Assistant US Attorneys (AUSAs) are the ones making the decisions as to whether or not to file, and they are just lawyers hired through normal recruiting channels. Branch US Attorney offices are little fiefdoms - technically they answer to the head US Attorney in their federal district, but in practice they have little contact with him or her and do as they please unless they really mess something up.

Because people are people, and many of them view the position of AUSA as a stepping stone to $800/hr jobs at white collar criminal defense firms or prestigious political appointments, they tend to file cases with which they can make a name for themselves. One way for them to do that is “creative prosecution” - charging people for conduct that isn’t clearly in violation of a given statute, and then trying to shoehorn the case into a conviction or guilty plea. There is no moral hazard for them in doing this - if they lose, nobody cares, and if they win, they get credit for their genius - so they will do it again and again until it works.

That’s what happened here - they managed to shoehorn a conviction in a highly questionable case, and the AUSAs behind it will ultimately leverage this into a better job and a better life. I’m not sure that voting for individual AUSAs is the answer, but something needs to be done to reign these people in. They currently have free reign to burn lives to the ground for their own gain.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#137

Fuck you US Government is more like it. Oh, and the assholes that vote these idiots into office over and over again. I don't care if it's Pelosi/Boxer or Inhofe/Cruz, they all are pieces of shit.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16921992 and marked it off-topic.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not a utility to get a free new copy of windows. However, that notwithstanding, copyright law grants Microsoft the exclusive right to arbitrarily restrict how these disks are created. It's just like you can offer some content on your website for free to anyone, but sue anyone who redistributes it for copyright infringement.

I don't recall agreeing to a license when downloading restore images? Presumably customers not receiving a restore image can now reclaim $299 from Microsoft as that is judged the value of the disc that was not included with their license purchase. Or indeed send back the install disc for at least a 50% refund. Just think how much money MS would make buying back install discs for $150. /s (yes, that's right, at least…

I’m sorry, but you shouldn’t be hating on judges when your understanding of law is so spotty.

Windows is subject to copyright. There doesn’t need to be a license for you to agree to—that would be a contract.

Copyright gives the creator the final say on creating copies of their work. Just because someone gives it away for free-as-in-beer does not grant you a license to create and sell copies. Try recording and selling music from the radio if you dont believe me.

While there are exemptions to the rules like fair use, none of them applied here. If you’re unhappy with the judge, take it up with Congress. Because there is absolutely nothing wrong in the court’s application of current law.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#139
post #68

Can’t blame this on Microsoft. Legal department probably said “these disks look visually similar to Dell disks, therefore we must press charges or everyone will start stamping out lookalike CDs and they’ll be able to get away with it by pointing to us not pressing charges here”. Blame the legal system, not Microsoft. All companies are under such obligations to not dilute their IP.

Could Microsoft not have pursued a cease-and-desist, rather than penalties of $299 (original prosecution) and jail time, if this had truly been their intent?

I don’t know, I’m not a lawyer.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#140
post #77

what makes it legal for an ISP (on behalf of an end-user) to request a microsoft server for the recovery disc download and then send this stream of bits to the end-user, but then illegal for Lundgren (also on behalf of an end-user) to request a microsoft server for the recovery disc download and then send a disc of those bts to the end-user? Is it because Lundgren is no ISP, or is it because the disc is considered a…

Nothing grants the ISP rights to request the data. Anyone can ask Microsoft for the data. However, only Microsoft can decide whether or not to grant the request and actually send the data. By making physical copies, Lundgren took Microsoft out of that equation. Now it was him and not Microsoft deciding who could get that data. So, unless Microsoft has granted you a license to distribute, then it doesn’t matter how mu…

obviously when a user goes to download the recovery disk from Microsoft, this does not happen directly: his requests are received by his ISP and then the last non-microsoft device asks the first microsoft device for the file. From then on the ISP starts receiving a stream of bits. And the ISP then distributes them on to the original user. Cables and optical fibres are also physical media. Furthermore the ISP will also have distributed all the requisite SSL handshakes, such that the stream from the perspective of the user can be effectively seen as branded with the Microsoft logo (optionally displayed with a secure lock symbol depending on the browser)...

Now if we all realize that ISP's are allowed to shamelessly distribute the recovery disk branded as authentic M$ warez, the judge might have been made to understand that it was not obvious for Lundgren that he would be forcefully fleeced.

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