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Widescreen laptops are dumb

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Re: Widescreen laptops are dumb

#131

Post by Zak »

ropeadopepope wrote: post #115
Zak wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When reading text, I believe the opposite to be true. It's why newspapers use relatively narrow columns of text despite having a lot of width to work with. It's much easier to keep my place and process information if I don't have to move my eyes much horizontally. When it comes to scanning for unexpected information, you may be right. A high aspect ratio might be better suited for gaming, at least with games where a…

The problem with both yours and the parent's assertion is context. Newspapers are easy to move so the portion you're reading is in your field of view. Your monitor isn't and it's used for much more than just reading static text. 1.5:1 may be a good reading aspect ratio, but if you need multiple things with that aspect ratio open and on the screen at the same time then you need a wider screen. edit: I just realized a…

3:2 is one 1.5:1 area. It's two 1.5:2, or 3:4 areas.

I don't find 3:2 to be an especially good aspect ratio for fullscreen text. It's still either too wide or too short, but 3:4 is pretty good, so two columns on 3:2 is two pretty good text areas on a 12-15" diagonal screen. It's also one pretty good text area and some UI, ads, etc... on either side.

I should note that physical size is a major constraint here. On a laptop, I want a column of text to be about 4-6" (10-15cm) wide. A desktop screen that's usually farther away can be a bit wider, maybe 8-10" (20-25cm). Having those columns be very tall is fine. I've been using a 24" 9:16 display for having documentation up while coding lately.

Re: Widescreen laptops are dumb

#132

Post by MarkLowenstein »

rsync wrote: post #125
cup-of-tea wrote: post #31

I don't know why this article is only about laptops. It's difficult to buy a square desktop monitor these days too. I've been complaining about it for years. Widescreen is a terrible shape for code. I don't need more horizontal space, I need more lines. What am I going to use horizontal space for? People say turn the monitor vertical but that's horrible too. The screen is designed to be viewed at a certain angle for…

"It's difficult to buy a square desktop monitor these days too." Actually, it's quite simple - here is a 27" 1920x1920 square monitor you can buy on amazon: https://www.amazon.com/FlexScan-EV2730QFX-Monitor-1920x1920-... I have one and I think it's great. I actually prefer splitting a 16x10 monitor into two halves, but the perfectly square monitor is great for diagnostics/monitoring where I can split it into four equ…

I second this. I have this EIZO square monitor and it is a joy to work in. Just think of "wide" screens as actually being "short" screens, and you can see why you'd feel cramped and constricted when using one, like living in a house with 7-foot ceilings.

Re: Widescreen laptops are dumb

#133

Post by tom_ »

wlll wrote: post #76
cup-of-tea wrote: post #31

I don't know why this article is only about laptops. It's difficult to buy a square desktop monitor these days too. I've been complaining about it for years. Widescreen is a terrible shape for code. I don't need more horizontal space, I need more lines. What am I going to use horizontal space for? People say turn the monitor vertical but that's horrible too. The screen is designed to be viewed at a certain angle for…

I have two 27" Apple monitors, one in portrait and one in landscape orientation. The portrait orientation monitor I use for code. They look identical, there is no degradation (that I can see) from looking at the monitor rotated 90°. If anyone is interested, I use the VESA mount conversion kit from Apple and have the monitors mounted on the Amazon Basics monitor arms, which I highly recommend.

I like portrait mode too, so much in fact that I've got 2 x Dell 27" U2715H monitors (2560x1440 eIPS) set up that way.

I've been using this setup for about 18 months now, and I really rate it. 1440x2560 is a very usable resolution. Very few problems with websites (I had regular minor issues when I had a 1200x1920 screen); tons of lines of code on screen; plenty wide enough for 2 side-by-side columns; I don't find it a problem to use 3 side-by-side columns (77 columns apiece) in Emacs with a small font; small desk footprint.

Full-height windows are sometimes a bit much, but for the main display I've found having one window or panel that's 2/3 the height and one that's 1/3 the height works very well. The 1/3 height area is still 1440x850 or so - plenty for a terminal, Emacs window, debugger output, that kind of thing.

As a bonus, 1/3 of the screen is a bit taller than 16:9, so good for videos, and 2/3 of the screen is about the right proportions for A4 PDFs. Considering it's just the not-very-good 16:9 turned on its side, I've found 9:16 to work remarkably well...

(With the proviso that the pixel count is almost certainly relevant, and I very likely would not feel as positive about 1080x1920...)

Re: Widescreen laptops are dumb

#134

Post by lamename »

regularfry wrote: post #123
lamename wrote: post #48

Screens are visual, and human vision is biased to search lateral space over vertical space. This is due to the nature of humans' visuospatial limitations. We're largely 2d animals in our movement: front/back & left/right, not so much up down. This is different from animals like birds and fish who constantly have to navigate all 3 dimensions to catch prey and avoid death. We aren't ignorant of vertical space, but hori…

I thought it was because panel manufacturers could make them cheaper if they used the same components for monitors and TVs.

I wondered if I was ignorant of any engineering constraints. Good to know. However, my comment was meant to be more about screens in general, so it includes why TVs are wide in the first place.

Re: Widescreen laptops are dumb

#135

Post by slantyyz »

cup-of-tea wrote: post #113
slantyyz wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> It's not more space. My 4:3 monitor has a resolution of 1600x1200. That's 180 lines of pixels more than a 1080p screen which is about 13 lines of text. And it's 320 less lines horizontally. What matters to you may not matter to the next person, because their use case is different from yours. No matter what laptop (and monitor) manufacturers do with respect to aspect ratio, they're never going to please everyone wi…

Why do they have to choose only one? Just offer options for people who don't want widescreen. This is hacker news. Surely here we can complain that they're not made for programming. I also do a lot of writing and extra width is utterly useless for that.

>> Why do they have to choose only one? Just offer options for people who don't want widescreen.

Isn't the answer kinda simple? If Apple were to decide to offer non-widescreen laptops and they sold like hotcakes, everyone would follow suit. For better or worse, Apple sets the trends on laptop form factors.

Re: Widescreen laptops are dumb

#136

Post by cup-of-tea »

pmarreck wrote: post #116
cup-of-tea wrote: post #31

I don't know why this article is only about laptops. It's difficult to buy a square desktop monitor these days too. I've been complaining about it for years. Widescreen is a terrible shape for code. I don't need more horizontal space, I need more lines. What am I going to use horizontal space for? People say turn the monitor vertical but that's horrible too. The screen is designed to be viewed at a certain angle for…

> Widescreen is a terrible shape for code. I beg to differ. I have a UWQHD and love it for code. I can have 2 sets of code side by side (or a terminal) AND docs AND the website I'm working on, all visible without moving windows. Possibly also messaging apps. I cannot fathom how someone wouldn't be able to appreciate working on a UWQHD monitor.

I can't look at that many things at once so I use the keyboard to switch between them. It's quicker than moving my head.

Re: Widescreen laptops are dumb

#137

Post by cup-of-tea »

rsync wrote: post #125
cup-of-tea wrote: post #31

I don't know why this article is only about laptops. It's difficult to buy a square desktop monitor these days too. I've been complaining about it for years. Widescreen is a terrible shape for code. I don't need more horizontal space, I need more lines. What am I going to use horizontal space for? People say turn the monitor vertical but that's horrible too. The screen is designed to be viewed at a certain angle for…

"It's difficult to buy a square desktop monitor these days too." Actually, it's quite simple - here is a 27" 1920x1920 square monitor you can buy on amazon: https://www.amazon.com/FlexScan-EV2730QFX-Monitor-1920x1920-... I have one and I think it's great. I actually prefer splitting a 16x10 monitor into two halves, but the perfectly square monitor is great for diagnostics/monitoring where I can split it into four equ…

While impressed with the existence of this, it's still difficult to remove an arm and leg to pay for this.

Re: Widescreen laptops are dumb

#138

Post by cup-of-tea »

MarkLowenstein wrote: post #132
rsync wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's difficult to buy a square desktop monitor these days too." Actually, it's quite simple - here is a 27" 1920x1920 square monitor you can buy on amazon: https://www.amazon.com/FlexScan-EV2730QFX-Monitor-1920x1920-... I have one and I think it's great. I actually prefer splitting a 16x10 monitor into two halves, but the perfectly square monitor is great for diagnostics/monitoring where I can split it into four equ…

I second this. I have this EIZO square monitor and it is a joy to work in. Just think of "wide" screens as actually being "short" screens, and you can see why you'd feel cramped and constricted when using one, like living in a house with 7-foot ceilings.

Short screens! Exactly. I'm going to start using that one.

Re: Widescreen laptops are dumb

#139

Post by Razengan »

Regarding the idea that "human vision is biased to search lateral space over vertical space", what has influenced us to have writing systems that are almost universally horizontal?

I can only think of Japanese that may be written vertically.

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