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Palantir is using War on Terror tools to track American citizens

bloomberg.com

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Re: Palantir is using War on Terror tools to track American citizens

#131

Post by dpwm »

chatmasta wrote: post #93
dpwm wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say I'm law enforcement and I have some information obtained in a way which wouldn't stand up even in the most farcical of courtrooms. What I can do is use surveillance tools to find a way to effectively entrap you, to gather evidence. Think of it like a tip-off that you're not allowed to have. Palantir specialises in providing tools to analyze and aggregate big data. If law enforcement has an interest in it, i…

If the data was sourced from public information that the target willingly posted online, does law enforcement even need to use parallel construction? Couldn’t they use the palantir data to obtain a warrant for more thorough searches? I too have a problem with business models that invade our privacy. But I think it’s a bit disingenuous to conflate “private information” with information that you voluntarily posted on t…

I wasn't even thinking about public data. There's a lot of data that law enforcement already collects. What about license plate data, data from IMSI catchers, and leaked data. Add in the publicly available online data and you can supposedly build up quite a profile about them.

What if somebody is arrested and happens to have a very convenient data set on a lot of people, such as data used for marketing purposes. Is it okay if those people are stopped and searched on the basis that somebody else held data about them and the police have supposed that 10% of the clients are suspected of criminality?

Normally there is supposed to be evidence that the crime took place before an investigation can begin.

If law enforcement starts with the evidence and then look for the crime that fits it, that's something different.

Re: Palantir is using War on Terror tools to track American citizens

#132

Post by ideophobia »

fulafel wrote: post #124
ideophobia wrote: post #82

I used to be intelligence analyst that utilized Palantir on a daily basis. Ask me anything.

How effective a tool was it compared to other tools at your disposal?

This is probably my favorite question, and the reason why I like Palantir, but tell everyone not to bother buying it. The most common "low-tech" tools used by analyst's across the board are IBM's I2 Analyst's Notebook, ArcGIS (or something similar), Excel, various external databases, and Microsoft word. To super dumb-it-down: You use external data bases and excel to collect initial data, you use i2 to visualize it, you use ArcGIS to map it, then you use Word to write a report about it. Palantir does all these things on it's own, so in theory you'd only need to buy and utilize one product vs multiple. The problem is that it does each one fairly sub-par as compared to the more common "low-tech" options. You have to deeply invest in Palantir, and have them build in the customization necessary to really make it shine within your department. Unfortunately that ups the price significantly, so many agencies are buying essentially the off-the-shelf version and then complaining that it doesn't do what they need it to do.

Re: Palantir is using War on Terror tools to track American citizens

#133

Post by chatmasta »

dpwm wrote: post #131
chatmasta wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the data was sourced from public information that the target willingly posted online, does law enforcement even need to use parallel construction? Couldn’t they use the palantir data to obtain a warrant for more thorough searches? I too have a problem with business models that invade our privacy. But I think it’s a bit disingenuous to conflate “private information” with information that you voluntarily posted on t…

I wasn't even thinking about public data. There's a lot of data that law enforcement already collects. What about license plate data, data from IMSI catchers, and leaked data. Add in the publicly available online data and you can supposedly build up quite a profile about them. What if somebody is arrested and happens to have a very convenient data set on a lot of people, such as data used for marketing purposes. Is i…

You bring up a good point. Palantir is not just mining public data, but also organizing data that law enforcement provides to them (like license plate readings). But if law enforcement already has that data, is the problem that Palantir organizes it, or that law enforcement collects it in the first place?

Re: Palantir is using War on Terror tools to track American citizens

#134

Post by jstanley »

your-nanny wrote: post #121
atom-morgan wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, he's observing a trend and comparing its results to the ideal “capitalist democracy” that Thiel wish existed. Women, in general, aren't very libertarian especially on fiscal issues. He's not saying their rights should be taken away. I'll admit, it isn't the best worded statement in the world.

He isn't saying that they ought to never have been granted?

No, he isn't saying that.

Re: Palantir is using War on Terror tools to track American citizens

#135

Post by hankhill »

your-nanny wrote: post #85
atom-morgan wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do question his commitment to freedom. But a misogynist?

I base my assertion on sentiments he has expressed, one if which was quoted in the Bloomberg article: >The 1920s was the last time one could feel “genuinely optimistic” about American democracy, he said; since then, “the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women—two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians—have rendered the notion of ‘capitalist democracy’ in…

Downvoted for quoting the article. Some serious Palantir fanatics on HN today. Hmm...

Re: Palantir is using War on Terror tools to track American citizens

#136

Post by blurbleblurble »

empath75 wrote: post #6
beaconstudios wrote: post #4

Why does the media seem to be publishing so many "well duh" tier articles about various companies at the moment? "Big data company collects big data", "company known for monetising private data collects private data", "political consulting company profiles voters and tries to affect vote". No shit?

I know this might be a surprise to you, but not everyone knows everything that you do.

That is a life lesson that keeps on learning

Re: Palantir is using War on Terror tools to track American citizens

#137

Post by knuththetruth »

atom-morgan wrote: post #118
your-nanny wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I base my assertion on sentiments he has expressed, one if which was quoted in the Bloomberg article: >The 1920s was the last time one could feel “genuinely optimistic” about American democracy, he said; since then, “the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women—two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians—have rendered the notion of ‘capitalist democracy’ in…

Yes, he's observing a trend and comparing its results to the ideal “capitalist democracy” that Thiel wish existed. Women, in general, aren't very libertarian especially on fiscal issues. He's not saying their rights should be taken away. I'll admit, it isn't the best worded statement in the world.

Describing your “ideal society” and then depicting one group, especially one who was politically and socially disempowered at the time, as an obstacle to it is called scapegoating.

Historically, this ideology has had some very bad consequences.

Re: Palantir is using War on Terror tools to track American citizens

#138

Post by briandear »

noir_lord wrote: post #108
sschueller wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what sanctions are for. But I highly doubt the EU will ever sanction the US as they are so dependant on them.

EU has more people and an equivalent sized economy. The EU could stand up to the US if they felt it mattered. Other than defence partnerships the EU is no more dependent on the US than the US is on the EU. It's a two way street. Unless you think the US would be happy to walk a way from the largest single market in the world (by GDP).

Except the EU isn’t a country. Poland doesn’t have the same incentives that Greece might, as an example.

Re: Palantir is using War on Terror tools to track American citizens

#139

Post by everdev »

This was a huge debate when the Patriot act was passed, that US citizens would get caught up in surveillance.

It seems common in history that during war time, a country aggressively pursues it's own population for spies or sympathizers for the enemy. It send also common that the country goes overboard so as not to let anyone through the cracks and a lot of innocent people get swept up in the process.

Re: Palantir is using War on Terror tools to track American citizens

#140

Post by deadmetheny »

your-nanny wrote: post #121
atom-morgan wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, he's observing a trend and comparing its results to the ideal “capitalist democracy” that Thiel wish existed. Women, in general, aren't very libertarian especially on fiscal issues. He's not saying their rights should be taken away. I'll admit, it isn't the best worded statement in the world.

He isn't saying that they ought to never have been granted?

He's saying that women tend not to be libertarians, which is a large enough block of people to where it's very difficult to implement libertarian policies to law. There's no implication that women shouldn't be allowed to vote or women's suffrage was a mistake, it's just a really awkwardly worded statement.
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