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Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

independent.co.uk

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Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#131

Post by TeMPOraL »

Silhouette wrote: post #86
ntoeiusn43stot wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they say no, you have to let them use it anyway, without the tracking and without the storing. This is the part I'm most excited about. (Or would be if I lived in the EU.) I'll be very interested to see how that works out. I'd love to see something like that in the US.

I have to wonder whether at some point the EU is going to become so aggressive that the big US tech firms really do start calling their bluff. Stronger legal privacy protections may be long overdue in our modern, online world, but that particular measure is transparently aimed at undermining entire business models that have supported services evidently valuable to literally billions of people around the world, and th…

> but that particular measure is transparently aimed at undermining entire business models

Yes, but that's the entire point. That's why this regulation exists That's why it has so many fans here on HN.

Not sure if there's a qualitatively different way of achieving the same goal with a different method. There probably isn't, so it boils down to a careful balancing act - how to damage those business models without going overboard and having all US companies show EU the finger.

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#132

Post by textmode »

panarky wrote: post #101

The screens will not give Facebook users the option to hit "decline." Instead, they will guide users to either "accept and continue" or "manage data setting." Also known as "Hobson's Choice": a free choice in which only one thing is offered. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobson%27s_choice Naturally the vast majority will just click through and accept the defaults. But what if a small number does not? Could Facebook s…

http://nymag.com/selectall/2018/04/jaron-lanier-interview-on...

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#133

Post by kalleboo »

fuscy wrote: post #7

Considering that Facebook makes its revenue from ads and that providing relevant ads needs data and tracking, this move is not so bad. Users that don’t accept the terms or use various tech to block this, would receive misappropriated ads. Bad ads make companies lose revenue while annoying the users with extremely irrelevant info. This method should be extremely effective in removing false positives. Personal observat…

I would have loved to get properly targeted ads, but even with all of Google and Facebook's data, my ads are all complete and utter crap. Right now Facebook is showing me ads in Thai language selling me a visa to visit Japan as a tourist. I don't speak Thai and I already live in Japan. Facebook knows this. Why am I getting these horrible ads?

The online ad business is just complete and utter bullshit. They have all this data and have utterly failed at using even the most basic data points ("where does he live?" "what language does he speak?"). And all they can think of is "hmm probably need more data"

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#134

Post by kalleboo »

gukov wrote: post #17
Guest9812398 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't we simply choose relevant ad categories that we would prefer to see? Why do the options need to be (i) see random advertisements that are likely irrelevant, or (ii) allow us to track your every move, including your location, each site you visit with the Facebook widget, your message and call history, and your every click. Or non-Facebook related, why can't my smart TV just let me choose PC Gaming, Technolog…

Because ads are about selling you something you didn't think you wanted.

Then why do I keep getting ads for things I already bought?

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#135

Post by _o_ »

lolc wrote: post #83

I think a lot of lawyers are poring over provision 42 of GDPR these days: "(42) Where processing is based on the data subject's consent, the controller should be able to demonstrate that the data subject has given consent to the processing operation. [...] For consent to be informed, the data subject should be aware at least of the identity of the controller and the purposes of the processing for which the personal d…

Rather read this:

GDPR, Article 4: ‘consent’ of the data subject means any freely given, specific, informed and unambiguous indication of the data subject’s wishes by which he or she, by a statement or by a clear affirmative action, signifies agreement to the processing of personal data relating to him or her;

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#136

Post by nkkollaw »

product50 wrote: post #128
wolco wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More active? Really? The number of facebook user accounts never goes down with new bots getting accounts constantly but people activty logging in and sharing, posting or caring is down.

Yes - more active. You are suffering from confirmation bias at this point. What data apart, apart from your anecdotal experience, do you have which shows that sharing and caring about FB post is down?

You seem great at diagnosing why what we're saying doesn't make sense, but you don't have anything to back whatever your point is.

Since we don't have access to Facebook logs and can't know how many times people sign in and to what percentage are bots wandering around the site, we can only talk about our impressions.

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#137

Post by ben_w »

perl4ever wrote: post #125
ben_w wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you are welcome to terminate your employment. That fails the test: > Consent should not be regarded as freely given if the data subject has no genuine or free choice or is unable to refuse or withdraw consent without detriment.

I suspect "genuine" and "free" are terms of art . Not to mention "detriment". Reading it with common sense in mind may not be productive.

While this is certainly possible, I would have to see a (legal dictionary?) to change my mind.

Any links?

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#138

Post by KozmoNau7 »

downandout wrote: post #49
maximente wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what you've suggested seems OK technically, but i feel like you're making an assumption that originating source of traffic determines citizenship of the user. it could very well be that an EU citizen in Asia or the US is collected upon given your algorithm. if that's the case, are you not in violation of GDPR? but, at the risk of rabbit-holing, your suggestion would be a pretty fundamental change to how the web works…

but, at the risk of rabbit-holing, your suggestion would be a pretty fundamental change to how the web works. in effect, you'd be moving toward a splintered web, where content is basically region locked. I think you're spot on, but that was the danger of implementing heavy-handed legislation like GDPR all along. I believe that EU citizens are going to find themselves locked out of a whole world of content. But that's…

>"the mistaken belief that the world will simply play ball and be dictated to by the EU, rather than the rest of the world simply taking their ball and going home"

And leave millions and millions in profit on the table for everyone else?

That the same argument used against changing the tax codes so companies would actually have to pay taxes in the countries in which they do business, by closing the loopholes.

They're not going to throw away profitable markets just like that. And if they do, good riddance.

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#139

Post by oddity »

elliottcarlson wrote: post #115
everyone wrote: post #110

I'm a member of a facebook group for Irish game developers. Very good group, pretty much the only reason I use fb. Though I am logged on all day as I dont want to miss anything on it. I tabled the idea of the group leaving fb for somewhere else, as now would be the time people would be receptive to that idea. The consensus was, nah, dont bother, this is fine... welp.

Unrelated to your post for the most part, but just to clarify for readers; tabling an idea in American English is to postpone a decision (potentially indefinitely), while in British English this is the exact opposite and means that the idea is being presented for review at the current moment.

I've lived in America most of my life, but I've only ever heard (or assumed?) the latter usage, which I assumed related to the phrase "is on the table". I wonder what the origin of the former is.

edit: I suppose it comes from how optimistically/pessimistically you view someone saying that a decision is on the table, I guess. Funny.

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#140

Post by KozmoNau7 »

downandout wrote: post #57
freehunter wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. I'm not sure about that. If Apple and Google won't pull out of China even though China makes them do all sorts of business stuff they disagree with, I highly doubt they (web companies) would pull out of the entire EU. It would be absolutely incredible if Facebook et al "took their ball and went home" throwing away 500 million customers .

Of course not, because Apple, Google, Facebook et al have the resources to spend millions on attorneys to implement the GDPR. My comment comes from the perspective of an operator of several small sites that get a total of a few million visitors per month combined. I'm not spending millions on attorneys, and EU traffic is only incidental to my sites anyway, so I am indeed taking my ball and going home. This will make…

Are you hosted in Europe, and/or do you do business from the EU?

No? Don't bother instituting a stupid ban like that, then. And stop scaremongering.

GDPR applies to businesses.

Besides, compliance isn't too bad for something like a forum. Just purge the relevant user records and posts, if requested to or when a user deletes their account.

Source: I am doing GDPR compliance on web applications for a major telco.

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