You have options – Why we left the U.S. and moved back to Europe • Hacker News Board

Re: You have options – Why we left the U.S. and moved back to Europe

#131

Post by auganov » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 9:07 AM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #93

auganov wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're on HN. The startup industry in most of Europe is non-existent. Very few options. As a founder, much of Europe looks pretty much the same. Want to actually assimilate - good luck given the prevalent ethnocentrism. It's nothing like moving from one US state to another.

To be fair, 75% of US venture capital accumulates in just three states[1], and leaves the overwhelming majority of the country out. The US startup industry is higher but not wider than the European one. The ethnocentrism is prevalent in US startup culture as well, it is overwhelmingly white and Asian with Hispanics and African-Americans being left out. Underprivileged minorities face steep challenges in the tech indu…

1. VC funding is hardly well-spread in Europe - UK, Germany and France compromise roughly 75% of European funding too [0].

2. The entire European pie is roughly 25% of the US.

3. That's racism and it's a problem in the EU too, albeit less recognized. The ethnocentrism is an additional, different one (and it only amplifies racism). It's the way European national identities are defined mostly along ethnic and linguistic lines. American culture and identity is 100x more universalist than the European ones. This means not only will people have a harder time seeing you as one of them, you'll also have a harder time seeing yourself as one.

[0] https://medium.com/yankeesabralimey/european-israeli-venture...

Re: You have options – Why we left the U.S. and moved back to Europe

#132

Post by mschuster91 » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 10:02 AM UTC

infinity0 wrote: post #56

innocentoldguy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm currently in the process of moving out of the U.S. to Japan. I'm considering ditching my U.S. citizenship for this reason.

Note that on certain US visa applications, they ask you whether you've ever renounced US citizenship for the purposes of avoiding tax.

I wonder if it would be possible to state "no, I renounced due to not wanting to be associated with Donald Trump" (or, if you're leaning to the Republican side, Barack Obama)...how are they going to prove otherwise?

Re: You have options – Why we left the U.S. and moved back to Europe

#133

Post by yardie » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 10:37 AM UTC

ianai wrote: post #86

yardie wrote: post #19

We moved from France back to the US (Miami, specifically) in the last year. Going back to France has come up a lot in our household. Salaries are definitely higher here but once I deduct the major expenses (healthcare, childcare, healthy foods) it comes out to be only 10% bump salary wise. In our travels the one thing we have found is that medical tourism is becoming a better known option to Americans. I've met docto…

Is real estate cheaper here or there? It seems, at least in the southwest, more common to be able to afford more land/property.

Land is definitely cheaper in the US. Building codes vary quite a bit. But I don’t expect these houses to last 50+ years without significant upkeep. It seems like the quality of the buildings were higher in Western Europe. But that could be survivor bias. Crappy buildings get knocked down sooner.

Re: You have options – Why we left the U.S. and moved back to Europe

#134

Post by fwdpropaganda » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:35 AM UTC

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #119

fwdpropaganda wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As broken and expensive as US healthcare is, you’re making 3x the money here It's not a matter of the expected values, it's a matter of their distribution. The fact that you're making 3x as much doesn't change the fact that if you're unlucky for whatever reason you'll be in debt for the rest of your life.

No you won't. Bankruptcy is a thing. You have a put option to pay for medical care at the price of "all your non-creditor-protected assets". If you're in a reasonable place like Texas and you're maxing out IRA/401k and paying down your mortgage on your primary residence, you're going to be fine financially as long as you can either work or have good disability insurance.

Oh, so you just go bankrupt. That's a good system then.

Re: You have options – Why we left the U.S. and moved back to Europe

#135

Post by maxerickson » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 12:11 PM UTC

Cyph0n wrote: post #105

projektir wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your formulation makes it sound like the government will make sure you have insurance. This is not the case. You have to make sure you have insurance or the government will fine you. But if you were unable to get insurance for whatever reason, you still don't have insurance. And Obamacare premiums are not small and the insurance is not very good.

To follow up on this, you will be fined by the IRS for every month of the year in which you have no insurance...

Not anymore though, the 2017 tax bill repealed that part of the law.

Re: You have options – Why we left the U.S. and moved back to Europe

#136

Post by _dps » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 1:43 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #108

projektir wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your formulation makes it sound like the government will make sure you have insurance. This is not the case. You have to make sure you have insurance or the government will fine you. But if you were unable to get insurance for whatever reason, you still don't have insurance. And Obamacare premiums are not small and the insurance is not very good.

What's your criteria for "good"? The worst conforming ACA plans are essentially the catastrophic insurance that people think they are clamoring for; they are expensive because health care costs in the US are spiraling out of control. It could be that people actually want plans with a bunch of complicated limitations and limits, but I doubt it.

> The worst conforming ACA plans are essentially the catastrophic insurance that people think they are clamoring for

Just an anecdote, but I have not found this to be the case at all, and I'd figure I'd offer an example of one such "clamorer who thinks he wants catastrophic plans" to balance the discussion.

Prior to ACA I was on a "catastrophic" plan (despite being able to afford something much more comprehensive). I think the "catastrophic" term is kind of dumb, and I'd instead call it "actually-insurance, not a prepaid health subscription".

The premium was around $95/month and I spent maybe another ~$1k/year on medications and office visits. I was totally satisfied with this health coverage and never felt I had to limit my access to health care because of my plan.

As soon as ACA rolled around I tried to find the most similar plan I could (mine was discontinued despite promises to the contrary).

1) I couldn't get as high a deductible, so I was forced to pay for risk-reduction I didn't want. In an absolutely life-threatening 1%-of-insurees catastrophe, my family can absorb say $25k/year out of pocket so I see no reason to insure against that financial risk.

2) The first year my premium was $180, then $220, then $260. I did not save any money on medications or office visits (if anything it got more expensive, but that may also just be a general trend in US health costs).

So post-ACA my insurance premium cost has nearly tripled, and the product I considered satisfactory before is simply not available on the market.

In summary: people can rationally prefer pre-ACA catastrophic plans, and post-ACA such options are not available.

Re: You have options – Why we left the U.S. and moved back to Europe

#137

Post by innocentoldguy » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 1:56 PM UTC

samjc wrote: post #53

SirLJ wrote: post #15

The only problem with the US is that you have to report to IRS even if you live and work in some other place...

The good news here, is that many countries have double taxation treaties. So that you don't get taxed by 2 countries for the same income. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_treaty

Only to a point. I think the limit is around $100,000.00 nowadays. Anything over that gets taxed by both the country you live in and the U.S. (if you're a U.S. citizen).

Re: You have options – Why we left the U.S. and moved back to Europe

#138

Post by innocentoldguy » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 1:57 PM UTC

roywiggins wrote: post #54

innocentoldguy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm currently in the process of moving out of the U.S. to Japan. I'm considering ditching my U.S. citizenship for this reason.

Do you have Japanese citizenship? Ending up stateless doesn't seem worth it.

My wife is Japanese and obtaining citizenship would be fairly easy. I agree on not ending up stateless.

Re: You have options – Why we left the U.S. and moved back to Europe

#139

Post by maxerickson » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 4:42 PM UTC

_dps wrote: post #136

maxerickson wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your criteria for "good"? The worst conforming ACA plans are essentially the catastrophic insurance that people think they are clamoring for; they are expensive because health care costs in the US are spiraling out of control. It could be that people actually want plans with a bunch of complicated limitations and limits, but I doubt it.

> The worst conforming ACA plans are essentially the catastrophic insurance that people think they are clamoring for Just an anecdote, but I have not found this to be the case at all, and I'd figure I'd offer an example of one such "clamorer who thinks he wants catastrophic plans" to balance the discussion. Prior to ACA I was on a "catastrophic" plan (despite being able to afford something much more comprehensive). I…

I think that's a fair counterpoint. It would be interesting to see some statistics about how many people are informed about the trade offs between deductibles and premiums and such.

Re: You have options – Why we left the U.S. and moved back to Europe

#140

Post by Barrin92 » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 6:49 PM UTC

auganov wrote: post #131

Barrin92 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, 75% of US venture capital accumulates in just three states[1], and leaves the overwhelming majority of the country out. The US startup industry is higher but not wider than the European one. The ethnocentrism is prevalent in US startup culture as well, it is overwhelmingly white and Asian with Hispanics and African-Americans being left out. Underprivileged minorities face steep challenges in the tech indu…

1. VC funding is hardly well-spread in Europe - UK, Germany and France compromise roughly 75% of European funding too [0]. 2. The entire European pie is roughly 25% of the US. 3. That's racism and it's a problem in the EU too, albeit less recognized. The ethnocentrism is an additional, different one (and it only amplifies racism). It's the way European national identities are defined mostly along ethnic and linguisti…

I didn't really disagree with the first two, but concerning the third one, that's really not true in all places in Europe any more and a little bit of a stereotype. Berlin is very much a cosmopolitan city at this point, and Sweden has always been very open as well. As is London and even cities like Warsaw are becoming more and more accepting.

France and Italy as two very large countries stand out, the former because it's very closed up culturally, the second because it's not in a good shape politically.

I won't deny that the US has a more open culture (having experienced both myself as a German citizen who has worked in the US) but the gap is not so large any more that the generalisation is valid without qualifications.