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Facebook Sued by Investors Over Voter-Profile Harvesting

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Re: Facebook Sued by Investors Over Voter-Profile Harvesting

#131

Post by sandworm101 »

dqv wrote: post #126
rmc wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you use Facebook platform apps, you have to consent to the disclosure of your information to the developer, and have to agree to allow whatever special permissions the developer is asking for. As for friend data that apps may have access to, when you sign up for and use Facebook, you agree to the terms and conditions, which allow this behavior. So it depends on what you mean by consent, and whether you want to…

>If you asked 1,000 facebook users what they had consented to, they probably would not think that they had consented to that. SomeFacebookApp is requesting permission to do the following: Access my basic information: Includes my name, profile picture, gender, networks, user ID, list of friends, and any other information I've shared with everyone. Access my contact information: Current Address and Mobile Phone Number…

You assume an unlimited ability to give consent. Some protected classes (ie children) and countless others may not be able to give consent. And id assume that in some country somewhere even adults might not be able to divest themselves of all privacy rights forever. There are limits to reasonability.

Re: Facebook Sued by Investors Over Voter-Profile Harvesting

#132

Post by _xczx »

Tempest1981 wrote: post #104
_xczx wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dunno. I just deleted mine, was sort of annoying not being able to find mobile phone numbers or emails for people I'd like to stay in touch with. I think that it'd be good to have a script that scrapes facebook id's, names, mobile numbers etc from your friends list, or some automation to prepare for deleting your account.

This? How can I download a copy of my Facebook data? https://www.facebook.com/help/302796099745838

I clicked that yesterday and got a notification telling me that it would take a while to get the copy of the data. Still waiting. In the meantime, a user who clicks that button has to guess whether it's safe to delete their facebook while facebook is getting the data.

However, the facebook data isn't good enough because I found that most of my friends didn't put in their contact information. So whether you download a copy of the facebook data or not, you're going to lose contacts (you decide whether it matters) and the rest you're going to need to call friends of friends and find the contact info you need, or ask people directly on facebook for their information.

Re: Facebook Sued by Investors Over Voter-Profile Harvesting

#133

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

downandout wrote: post #49
vkou wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were to ask 30 Facebook users whether or not Fred taking a stupid personality quiz leaked all their info, 29 of them would say no. This is why we need informed consent for data collection.

The point is that Facebook disclosed to you that this might happen. Failing to read the TOS is not the same as not having been informed. If you fail to read your mortgage contract but sign it anyway, you’ll still lose your house if you don’t live up to the terms. And for the record, the friend data that Facebook makes available to apps is far from “all” of it, especially nowadays

In Australia, people who work for organisations that sell mortgages have a professional duty they're required to perform by explaining to you, to your face, in simple terms, what certain parts of the contract mean and what obligations each party has, and sign off that they are satisfied that you understand.

I don't recall that ever happening when a TOS was displayed on any of my electronic devices.

So I don't think it's a valid comparison.

Re: Facebook Sued by Investors Over Voter-Profile Harvesting

#134

Post by IshKebab »

manuelflara wrote: post #125
IshKebab wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They haven't got around that, it's just that this data "breach" happened before 2015 when the old API was removed.

Is this correct? Because all this time I was wondering about this scandal: apparently, this all started because someone had some app or website which got downloaded by a few hundred thousand FB users (who gave access to their info), and somehow they turned that into data of 50M users. And I also am well aware the current FB API doesn't allow you to get info about your friends if only you give permissions to an app. T…

TL;DR (which someone never gets reported):

Before 2015 Facebook apps could access the data of your friends if you gave it permission. Your friends didn't need to give explicit permission (though there were never-used settings to block access).

Some academic dude made a personality test app that harvested the data from all of the friends of people who used it. He paid lots of people (almost all American) on Amazon's Mechanical Turk to use it and harvested their data and the data of their friends.

He sold that data to Cambridge Analytica. This was in 2012 I think. Facebook removed that version of the Friends API in 2015 so this is no longer possible.

Re: Facebook Sued by Investors Over Voter-Profile Harvesting

#135

Post by dqv »

dozzie wrote: post #127
dqv wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you asked 1,000 facebook users what they had consented to, they probably would not think that they had consented to that. SomeFacebookApp is requesting permission to do the following: Access my basic information: Includes my name, profile picture, gender, networks, user ID, list of friends, and any other information I've shared with everyone. Access my contact information: Current Address and Mobile Phone Number…

> I can't imagine how much more explicit this could be. Ah yes, and what exactly are they doing with this information? I can't imagine how much less explicit this could be.

>Ah yes, and what exactly are they doing with this information? I can't imagine how much less explicit this could be.

I would have appreciated less smugness, but I get your point. The permissions request should go further and say how the permissions will be used and what can happen if they are used.

Re: Facebook Sued by Investors Over Voter-Profile Harvesting

#136

Post by learnstats2 »

dqv wrote: post #126
rmc wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you use Facebook platform apps, you have to consent to the disclosure of your information to the developer, and have to agree to allow whatever special permissions the developer is asking for. As for friend data that apps may have access to, when you sign up for and use Facebook, you agree to the terms and conditions, which allow this behavior. So it depends on what you mean by consent, and whether you want to…

>If you asked 1,000 facebook users what they had consented to, they probably would not think that they had consented to that. SomeFacebookApp is requesting permission to do the following: Access my basic information: Includes my name, profile picture, gender, networks, user ID, list of friends, and any other information I've shared with everyone. Access my contact information: Current Address and Mobile Phone Number…

The idea of informed consent applied here (which is EU law) gives SomeFacebookApp permission to access the data, like the text you have written says, and nothing beyond that.

Once they had accessed the data, they would not [legally] be able to store it, or use it for any purpose. Text like this worries me because it's clear there is some illegal intent - that doesn't mean I agree to the illegal action.

Re: Facebook Sued by Investors Over Voter-Profile Harvesting

#137

Post by Armisael16 »

throwaway84742 wrote: post #87
Armisael16 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's definitional whataboutism.

The definition of whataboutism is excusing someone’s actions because someone else has done the same. What I’m pointing out here is the opposite.

Whataboutism isn’t excusing; it’s deflecting. To quote from the OED: “The technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counter-accusation or raising a different issue”

This is exactly what you’ve done.

Re: Facebook Sued by Investors Over Voter-Profile Harvesting

#138

Post by imglorp »

wu-ikkyu wrote: post #55
danabramov wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the article a bit further, you might find the explanation: >Zuckerberg's sales accounted for the most, by far. He announced plans in September to sell 35 million to 75 million shares over the next 18 months to fund philanthropic efforts. It's not new and was announced in September 2017. From the same article: >CEO Mark Zuckerberg sold 1.14 million shares as part of regularly scheduled programs.

If I were insider trading thats what I would say too. It is tax deductible.

I think you have to give it away before you declare it on your taxes.

Re: Facebook Sued by Investors Over Voter-Profile Harvesting

#139

Post by oldsklgdfth »

throwaway84742 wrote: post #11

I find it remarkable that when Obama did something similar in 2012, it was hailed as a major strength of his campaign and nobody had any problems with FB.

Your comment points out something very interesting about modern marketing. I think it is still ethically questionable even if you voluntarily hand over your data and not in a sketchy let-me-mine-your-friends-data-through-this-quiz way.

I feel like you used to be able to avoid getting swindled by ignoring the swindler, ex. close the door to the saleman, or ignore the gypsy pear salesmen at the market.

Today, marketing is engineered at such a level that it is difficult to awknowledge it's influence. That, and you are constantly bombarded by ads, either explicitly or implicitly.

I don't think I am saying anything novel. I guess I am curious what this mean about society and our political systems. People with power and wealth could still be toppled when you exposed them to the truth. How in the fuck does that even come close to happening today? How do you overcome marketing that is engineered to exploit the psychological vulnerabilities you are not even aware of? How do we patch our society and governing systems from being pwned?

This isn't meant as a rant. I am curious, because to the best i can tell we don't live in a society where voting matters and we have a say in our governance.

Re: Facebook Sued by Investors Over Voter-Profile Harvesting

#140

Post by crazy1van »

bigphishy wrote: post #77
downandout wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once again, your friends agreed to the possibility of this happening when they agreed to the TOS. I’m on my mobile phone right now, so I won’t be combing through the TOS looking for the specific clause atm. Maybe in an edit later. But it’s there.

In the US if you are unable to enter a legally binding agreement if you are intoxicated... Users who aren't reading anything, just ticking a box with a mouse click and hitting next defeats the purpose of a legally binding agreement. If both parties aren't all committed or informed, this is simliar an intoxicated person entering a legally binding agreement.

(IANAL)

These so-called "clickwrap" or "browser-wrap" agreements have definitely been found to be enforcible. However the details of exactly how the agreement was presented and what the user had to click can affect their enforcibilty.

Source: https://www.americanbar.org/publications/communications_lawy...

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