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Facebook’s Surveillance Machine

nytimes.com

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Re: Facebook’s Surveillance Machine

#131

Post by joering2 »

If someone thinks about building a new, better and more mature social network where users data wouldnt be sell to the Facebook’s tune, this is your time!

You dont have to have your startup listed on stock exchange and answer to shareholders how you squeezing out every possible penny out of your users; you just need to show enough ads to keep servers running and paying for salaries. And now you dont have to show off to everyone that you so nice tou only make $1 salary per tear — keep a cool million bucks annul to yourself. Thats a small percentage of ads shown and small percentage of dollars collected that Facebook is harvesting right now, to be able to run similar size of enterprise. And you be on your way of helping out our civilization in truly noble way.

Re: Facebook’s Surveillance Machine

#132

Post by rahoulb »

developer2 wrote: post #119
moduspol wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure the negative aspects are considered that bad, even by people who know about them. I really think techie sites just have an overrepresentation of online privacy advocates that steer conversations in that direction. I think you'll have trouble not coming across that way because it almost inherently suggests your values (importance of the privacy of your data) are better than theirs (enjoying Facebook and t…

This is the truth. The average person does not care about data mining. It's a non-issue for them. And no, it's not a matter of intelligence, or that they need to be educated on the matter. Leave them be. Ignorance is bliss - in a positive sense. If you're going to teach others anything about the perils of the internet, focus on the truly serious things: how to avoid phishing scams targeting bank accounts, fake virus…

Yes and no.

I've had a lot of people ask me if Facebook is listening in on the microphone on their phones - because they've been discussing something offline and then started seeing ads for it. Of course, maybe they've searched for it and then forgotten about it - but it's becoming a common topic of conversation.

Likewise, retargetted adverts are getting noticed more and more - people often tell me that they find it extremely creepy and annoying.

So there is a growing awareness out there ... it's just not reached a point where people want to take action yet.

Re: Facebook’s Surveillance Machine

#133

Post by gt_ »

HenryBemis wrote: post #112
bambax wrote: post #66

> Facebook makes money, in other words, by profiling us and then selling our attention to advertisers, political actors and others. These are Facebook’s true customers, whom it works hard to please. And you just figured this out now? This is like saying "wow, who knew we would get so fat by feeding only on pizza, hamburgers and coke, aren't those companies evil". Well, yes, companies are evil. They don't work for you…

In my eyes, this phrase is the big problem: "an all-too-natural consequence of Facebook’s business model" And as long as FB is making billions out of this model, it will not change. The only think one can do is remove themselves from being the means to FB's profitability and leave the FB employees sharing their own data. In a similar spirit, anyone who has my name & phone number in their contacts, when they decide to…

That is not the only thing one can do. Our governing bodies could be disentangled from private interests and put to task protecting the vulnerable members of our society for the better of the whole. This idea anything but new. Have you not thought of it before? If not, what do you think has prevented your awareness?

Re: Facebook’s Surveillance Machine

#134

Post by roadbeats »

whoisjuan wrote: post #126
roadbeats wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can stay in touch with relatives via mobile phone. You can text them and ask how they do. Personally, I created a Whatsapp group for my extended family. Some of them don't use Facebook by the way. It doesn't make any sense to complain about Facebook's business model and also not want to sacrifice a worthless personal account noone cares about. We choose what we use and they choose how they make money. You can exp…

"I created a Whatsapp group for my extended family"... You're just changing one poison for another one. Don't forget who owns Whatsapp.

I own Whatsapp. Do you know why? Because I own my contact list. I can migrate my whole family to Telegram or Signal tomorrow. Currently it's not bothering me.

Re: Facebook’s Surveillance Machine

#135

Post by gt_ »

cyphar wrote: post #94

> Should we all just leave Facebook? That may sound attractive but it is not a viable solution. It's the only sane response, and has been the only sane response, for the past decade. The only counter-argument given by NYT is that in some countries Facebook has a stranglehold. I don't see how that's relevant to people who don't live in those countries. As for organisers of political groups exclusively using Facebook (…

“Protest” by way of market choice is such a tired fallacy. It’s really amazing so many HN readers are so ready to take such outdated philosophy to the grave.

Re: Facebook’s Surveillance Machine

#136

Post by thousandautumns »

bambax wrote: post #66

> Facebook makes money, in other words, by profiling us and then selling our attention to advertisers, political actors and others. These are Facebook’s true customers, whom it works hard to please. And you just figured this out now? This is like saying "wow, who knew we would get so fat by feeding only on pizza, hamburgers and coke, aren't those companies evil". Well, yes, companies are evil. They don't work for you…

I’m have to disagree strongly with the blanket statement “companies are evil”. Companies don’t “sell something that is usually bad for you”. That’s ludicrously naive. Most companies are able to exist because of the net positive they have on individuals and society. I can’t build my own house, produce my own food, make the clothes I wear, or create the medicine I need when I’m sick. Companies publish and distribute the books I read, the entertainment I enjoy, and can can fly me anywhere on the planet if I want to expand my horizons. And yes, they make money off of all of those things, but there is nothing evil about that.

Perhaps the smallest part of some of those things would be possible in a world without companies, but the vast majority of it would not be. Facebook is an exception, is a net negative in my opinion, and we would be better off without it, but that doesn’t mean we have to go back and reinvent the last several hundred years of human history and progress by labeling all companies as evil entities.

Re: Facebook’s Surveillance Machine

#137

Post by 1337biz »

thanatropism wrote: post #128
capnrefsmmat wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And you just figured this out now? This is like saying "wow, who knew we would get so fat by feeding only on pizza, hamburgers and coke, aren't those companies evil". No. Zeynep Tufekci (the author of the article) has written about this for years, including a book about social media in political movements ( Twitter and Tear Gas ), a popular TED talk ( https://www.ted.com/talks/zeynep_tufekci_we_re_building_a_dy...…

I just said this in another comment but it so belongs here, I'll try to say it in just one sentence: there was a feel-good narrative to Obama that's just impossible now.

It is such an eye opening experience to see how media frames things when they try to support or sabotage somebody. This seems so far the clearest demonstration for anyone remotely interested in the topic.

Re: Facebook’s Surveillance Machine

#138

Post by swaggyBoatswain »

hellofunk wrote: post #31

I wish quite badly that the benefit of deactivating FB would outweigh the inconvenience, but FB has become such a mainstay that I'd lose touch with lots of people I really have no other way of contacting. I could say "good riddance," if there is no other way to contact them then perhaps they are not important enough to my life, but that's just not true. Or what about all the local forums (FB groups) in my city that h…

This is what I do to keep facebook from being annoying

1. Delete (disable) facebook app on phone 2. Stop all notifications from facebook from browser 3. Use email notifications to see updates to conversations 4. Use a seperate browser (phone and desktop) to login into facebook to reduce privacy tracking

If you want to check up on a specific friend, just go to their facebook profile.

Re: Facebook’s Surveillance Machine

#139

Post by cyphar »

gt_ wrote: post #135
cyphar wrote: post #94

> Should we all just leave Facebook? That may sound attractive but it is not a viable solution. It's the only sane response, and has been the only sane response, for the past decade. The only counter-argument given by NYT is that in some countries Facebook has a stranglehold. I don't see how that's relevant to people who don't live in those countries. As for organisers of political groups exclusively using Facebook (…

“Protest” by way of market choice is such a tired fallacy. It’s really amazing so many HN readers are so ready to take such outdated philosophy to the grave.

I am in very strongly favour of GDPR and other similar regulations. I just also think that enabling giants like Facebook to abuse you by admitting that you are unable to function without them is a bad strategy. Diversify if you can, and regulate to protect those who cannot. Nobody said you cannot approach something like this on more than one front.

Re: Facebook’s Surveillance Machine

#140

Post by littlepinkpill »

antocv wrote: post #70
bambax wrote: post #66

> Facebook makes money, in other words, by profiling us and then selling our attention to advertisers, political actors and others. These are Facebook’s true customers, whom it works hard to please. And you just figured this out now? This is like saying "wow, who knew we would get so fat by feeding only on pizza, hamburgers and coke, aren't those companies evil". Well, yes, companies are evil. They don't work for you…

Change is upon us, join patchwork at secure scuttlebutt. The social network is the network, no central services, federation or global anything.

Thanks for this pointer--if enough people adopted something like this FB would eventually wither away. I wondered when someone would use this model for social networking.
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