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Lead is even deadlier than was feared

theguardian.com

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Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#131

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

qubex wrote: post #85
eadmund wrote: post #31

> Worryingly, the “precautionary principle” that led to the phase-out, and is enshrined in EU law, is in danger from Brexit. The precautionary principle is not a vademecum — indeed, it can be taken far too far and become an excuse for either unthinking conservatism (banning anything new out of an overabundance of precaution).

For professional reasons I am aware of the ongoing controversy regarding titanium dioxide (used in paints and so forth) where an apparently flawed rat study has triggered off major pandemonium at the heart of REACH (EU’s materials risk assessment and management system) and threatens to run my industry aground, all because of the ”precautionary mechanism” and some possibly bad science. I’m not terribly confident about…

>I’m not terribly confident about how bureaucracies process this kind of information.

My reaction to “let’s have politicians establish tax schemes to ‘solve’ global warming”. Apparently to the gloom and doomers there is no nuance in the topic at all, odd for the people who claim to be such ardent supporters of science.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#132

Post by eric_h »

matte_black wrote: post #80
freehunter wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Fairly common knowledge So complete nonsense then. Got it.

I don’t know man. It was just something I knew from some time ago and there’s no end of google results that talk about this. Not really sure what other source you’re looking for. A research paper? Even those can be nonsense.

> A research paper? Even those can be nonsense.

An absense of research papers is far more frequently evidence of nonsense

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#133

Post by DanBC »

jakobegger wrote: post #90
nerdponx wrote: post #86

Serious question: does this mean I need to start being a lot more careful about lead debris generated by hobbyist soldering?

Yes? I don't know why people still use leaded solder in the first place? I only use lead free solder for my hobby projects, and it works fine.

Connector[1] pins on a ground plane on an 8 layer board are difficult to solder, and the wetability of lead helps a bit.

[1] Or pvc insulated wire onto a piezo brass disc sounder.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#134

Post by pault »

jjoonathan wrote: post #115
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how much of it would still be alive if they had used tin solder? Tin ages poorly?

"Tin whiskers" is the term to google. Makes for an especially visceral image search. There are many mitigation strategies, but lead was a miracle cure, and it will take substantial time and effort to approach its efficacy, especially on the multi-decade timescale. My guess is that companies won't bother. Reliability beyond planned lifetime impacts their bottom line negatively, if at all.

Apparently there is a brewery named Tin Whiskers. I would like to meet the founder, I bet we would get along. :)

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#135

Post by pault »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #93
jakobegger wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? I don't know why people still use leaded solder in the first place? I only use lead free solder for my hobby projects, and it works fine.

Because it's easier. When I started soldering, the lead-free stuff was finnicky but I had nearly no problems with leaded solder. Regardless, you should have good ventilation when soldering. A small fan to suck smoke away, maybe even a mask, and take care to clean your hands and the area like you would any other harmful material (e.g. oil).

Does anyone know of any ventilation kits that would work in an apartment that doesn't otherwise get a lot of air circulation? I can't drill holes in the walls for air ducts.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#136

Post by iN7h33nD »

Lead is still used all over the place in he USA. Its very concerning. You have to specifically look for lead free versions. Examples:

* "fake" christmas decorations (trees, wreaths) often contain lead

* Garden hoses almost always contain lead

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#137

Post by userbinator »

eadmund wrote: post #31

> Worryingly, the “precautionary principle” that led to the phase-out, and is enshrined in EU law, is in danger from Brexit. The precautionary principle is not a vademecum — indeed, it can be taken far too far and become an excuse for either unthinking conservatism (banning anything new out of an overabundance of precaution).

The classic saying "life is a terminal illness that affects everyone" comes to mind.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#138

Post by userbinator »

IshKebab wrote: post #5
sametmax wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well given that asbestos were known to be cancerous almost a century before we ban it, I'd say it's just the way we usually do things: use what's convenient until the cost is too high.

Asbestos is still manufactured and sold in some countries. Crazy I know.

Chrysotile "white asbestos" is the only type still legally allowed, because various studies have found it to be far less carcinogenic than the other types --- AFAIK crocidolite ("blue asbestos"), the most carcinogenic, has been banned completely.

https://www.epa.gov/asbestos/us-federal-bans-asbestos#notban...

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#139

Post by ams6110 »

falcolas wrote: post #64
sametmax wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well given that asbestos were known to be cancerous almost a century before we ban it, I'd say it's just the way we usually do things: use what's convenient until the cost is too high.

Want to feel a bit concerned? Carbon fiber particulate (such as what you get from sawing or sanding it) is as bad as asbestos. We love carbon fiber these days. Most of the time it is sequestered safely away in resin, but it's absurdly simple to free it.

Can you point to a study backing up this claim?

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#140

Post by lmm »

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #131
qubex wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For professional reasons I am aware of the ongoing controversy regarding titanium dioxide (used in paints and so forth) where an apparently flawed rat study has triggered off major pandemonium at the heart of REACH (EU’s materials risk assessment and management system) and threatens to run my industry aground, all because of the ”precautionary mechanism” and some possibly bad science. I’m not terribly confident about…

>I’m not terribly confident about how bureaucracies process this kind of information. My reaction to “let’s have politicians establish tax schemes to ‘solve’ global warming” . Apparently to the gloom and doomers there is no nuance in the topic at all, odd for the people who claim to be such ardent supporters of science.

Cap and trade is both the mainstream theoretical economic consensus recommendation, and worked well in practice in solving acid rain.
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