Developer Survey Results • Hacker News Board

Re: Developer Survey Results

#131

Post by dep_b » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:27 PM UTC

edanm wrote: post #129

antirez wrote: post #12

Cool to see Redis to be in top position. For what is worth, Redis confessed to love developers, so it is definitely a reciprocal feeling. Btw surprised to see "contributing to OSS" at ~50%. Looks like an incredibly high number (cit. Trump), so would be awesome to see this question more fine grained next time. This may be an indirect measure of all the work that goes into OSS to make it sustainable. I would like to se…

Definitely deserved for Redis, so thanks to you! And I completely agree about the OSS - this makes me really question the sampling bias of this whole survey, because there's no way so many developers contribute to OSS. Unless you really do mean something like "reporting issues", etc, in which case i'd still guess the real number was below 10%.

Maybe "have a GitHub repo gathering dust" already counts?

Re: Developer Survey Results

#132

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:28 PM UTC

tudelo wrote: post #116

shaki-dora wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice bit of victim blaming... “If you want to be paid the same as a man, maybe you should not have made ‘not being groped’ [aka company culture] your top priority!”

Is it though? Seems as though OP was just pointing out something interesting from the data. He was not making an argument for or against being labeled sexist. What is your solution to the pay gap between women and women, women and men, and men and men (specifically women and men though)?

[deleted]

Re: Developer Survey Results

#133

Post by zemo » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:28 PM UTC

reinhardt wrote: post #78

conradfr wrote: post #61

Two unrelated remarks: I'm surprised that Elixir was the 6th most loved language last year and disappeared this time, while Erlang gained some points. Was it even in the survey? Also it's interesting that women placed compensation at 4th in "Differences in Assessing Jobs by Gender", but if you point that fact as a contributing factor for the pay gap you can be labeled as sexist.

Even more striking, "the diversity of the company or organization" is second last for women. > The tech industry is struggling overall with issues around diversity, and individual developers are not making it a priority when looking for a job. So perhaps it's not the "tech industry" that's struggling, it's some vocal minority that would like to convince you it does.

that's a poor interpretation of the data.

That question is not "how satisfied are you with the state of each of these things now", it's "how much do you weight these categories when assessing new jobs". The fact that women don't put diversity at the top doesn't mean that they think that the state of diversity is good. It means that it's not a highly ranks job-selection criteria.

What people are prioritizing in a job hunt is what they're not getting in their current job. Women put "The office environment or company culture" first, men put it fourth. Why? Because women leave jobs because they get treated poorly. Men leave jobs because they think someone else will pay them more.

For most people, the priority is not in making sure their company looks like a college brochure, it's in finding a place where people will treat them with dignity.

Re: Developer Survey Results

#134

Post by crispyporkbites » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:31 PM UTC

calcifer wrote: post #100

s_dev wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>prioritizing comforts like compensation, using their favorite languages, or remote work, over helping to improve the world. Compensation isn't a comfort -- it's more like payment which is necessary. Not really something a developer could forgo. Regarding languages -- why would they not want to leverage their knowledge to get more compensation?

> Compensation isn't a comfort Sure it is. If you can "be fine" with $X, but are looking for a job that pays $Y (where $Y>$X), then that's seeking comfort.

$X directly relates to when I retire, so I see a high salary as buying time and freedom

Re: Developer Survey Results

#135

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:32 PM UTC

gemma wrote: post #126

conradfr wrote: post #61

Two unrelated remarks: I'm surprised that Elixir was the 6th most loved language last year and disappeared this time, while Erlang gained some points. Was it even in the survey? Also it's interesting that women placed compensation at 4th in "Differences in Assessing Jobs by Gender", but if you point that fact as a contributing factor for the pay gap you can be labeled as sexist.

> you can be labeled as sexist You'd have to take those data points in isolation and conclude "men like money more than women" to earn that label. I don't think anyone is surprised to see evidence that an exclusive workplace culture contributes to the pay gap. I'd posit that all else being equal, women value compensation and culture about the same as men. The priorities reflected in the survey are a symptom of the pr…

[deleted]

Re: Developer Survey Results

#136

Post by janneklouman » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:33 PM UTC

megaman22 wrote: post #114

pythonaut_16 wrote: post #98

I'm surprised Vue doesn't show up on the list anywhere. From everything I've seen Vue should probably show up in either the loved or wanted categories.

I'm not sure anybody outside of HN readership knows about Vue at all. It's either Angular, old Angular, or React everywhere.

Don't you think that's a bit naïve? Take this anecdotal counterevidence for instance: none of the four people I work with visit HN but all know of Vue.

Re: Developer Survey Results

#137

Post by dep_b » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:34 PM UTC

3pt14159 wrote: post #24

blauditore wrote: post #19

I wonder why there's so much dread for Cordova. It's a framework you don't interact with often while using it, so I would assume devs would have neutral, unemotional stance towards it, but apparently not.

Because a lot of us web deva used it once for a contract before swearing it and all of mobile development off forever. I’m sure it’s come a long way since, but it was pretty brutal to understand and debug years ago.

Because you're actually interacting with two completely different stacks at least that have a pretty leaky abstraction. So you only get the painful parts of iOS development, certificates and build chains not the fun parts. Repeat that for Android. points double barreled shotgun at chin

As a native iOS dev I write my own wrappers for web applications, I think Cordova is too just too much hassle for what it really does and only limits my possibilities as a native developer hosting a web application.

Re: Developer Survey Results

#138

Post by sweezyjeezy » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:34 PM UTC

SiempreViernes wrote: post #120

sweezyjeezy wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not clear to me that these are the same at all - if (emphasis) it is true that women do not value pay as much as men, and for this reason they apply for roles which lead them to be payed less - who exactly is the victim here? Are we not trusting women to know what jobs will make them happiest?

It is clear from their own accounts that many women face discrimination at their workplace, and that being subject to it brings significant costs. Unless you want to argue that women should knowingly accept positions where they will be discriminated against, the effect of sexism is that the viable job pool for women is smaller for reasons outside their control.

This is a fair point, I had not thought of it that way before.

Re: Developer Survey Results

#139

Post by jhasse » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:35 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #5

With all the talk of Vim vs. Emacs, it surprises me that Emacs is in the low single digits, while Vim is 25% of all respondents. It does not surprise me that it is 40% (and #1) amongst sysadmin/devops practitioners.

vim is Git's default editor. Emacs isn't even installed by default on many system.

Re: Developer Survey Results

#140

Post by purple-again » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:36 PM UTC

steveklabnik wrote: post #42

AstralStorm wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet corporates still don't use it and schools don't teach it. This shows how much power opinions have.

There are over 100 companies who are willing to put their logo on our website, and others we know about but can’t say, including Fortune 500 companies. Dropbox just went public and their project in Rust (and Go) was cited as a reason for their increased profitability. There have also been multiple university classes in Rust. It’s a start. (Also, this survey never claimed to be measuring either of those metrics...)

We have been using Rust in production for around 2 years now (yes its been a bumpy ride...) at a big stuffy old school finance company that I'm sorry doesn't want their logo on your website.

The Rust code is not only mission critical, it is literally THE defining factor that has won us several very large contracts now.

I make no attempt to compare Rust to other alternatives in its class, we chose it because we were developing primarily with Ruby/Ember at the time and it felt like a natural fit.