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Cleaning sprays have an impact on lung health comparable to cigarettes

independent.co.uk

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Re: Cleaning sprays have an impact on lung health comparable to cigarettes

#131

Post by Coincoin »

kpil wrote: post #103
outlace wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per the hygiene hypothesis, I wonder if your allergies got better because you’re exposing yourself to more (generally harmless) microorganisms and hence challenging your immune system more. Since I’m sure lactic acid doesn’t sterilize as well as some strong bleach or other chemical.

The idea that allergies somehow are caused by our sterile lifestyle is suspicious at best. It's might just be an appeal to nature - "all natural ingredients" fallacy. I claim that an individual has never before - in the history of mankind - been exposed to so many and different microorganisms as we are now. Comparing my daughter to my granddad, born 99 years before her, she probably meets as many "new" people per wee…

One major thing we are no longer exposed to are parasites. Those were common before but they are now pretty much inexistant in western civilization.

Re: Cleaning sprays have an impact on lung health comparable to cigarettes

#132

Post by Paperweight »

bitwize wrote: post #29
smaili wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to point to Amazon(or other sites) product pages? May be useful for some of us looking to buy.

Windex sells lactic acid cleaner readily available in stores. It's the yellow stuff, it looks like pee but it does the job.

Almost all household cleaning sprays use lactic acid. Its smell is less irritating than acetic acid, so presumably you can inhale more of it until you cough...

Re: Cleaning sprays have an impact on lung health comparable to cigarettes

#133

Post by scruple »

Joeri wrote: post #127
outlace wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per the hygiene hypothesis, I wonder if your allergies got better because you’re exposing yourself to more (generally harmless) microorganisms and hence challenging your immune system more. Since I’m sure lactic acid doesn’t sterilize as well as some strong bleach or other chemical.

Anecdata: my wife’s allergies come and go quite predictably switching between regular and hypoallergenic soaps and laundry detergents. Especially with laundry detergent a single load with the wrong detergent can have her sneezing all day. That doesn’t fit the micro organism exposure theory. Myself I have an allergy to grass pollen, but the catalyst that really brings it out is car exhaust. Personally I believe that t…

I recently (in the last 3 weeks) developed an allergy to heavily fragranced laundry detergent. It's the first persistent allergic reaction I've really ever had. We usually use a very mild unscented detergent but my mother in law was staying with us for a little while and uses Tide and she washed some of my clothes. I generally have sensitive skin and so it was quite a shock. I was bruising all over my body just from light but compulsory scratching. It seems to have passed but it's given me a new found appreciation for using mild chemicals for cleaning, etc...

Re: Cleaning sprays have an impact on lung health comparable to cigarettes

#134

Post by learnstats2 »

outlace wrote: post #130
Joeri wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdata: my wife’s allergies come and go quite predictably switching between regular and hypoallergenic soaps and laundry detergents. Especially with laundry detergent a single load with the wrong detergent can have her sneezing all day. That doesn’t fit the micro organism exposure theory. Myself I have an allergy to grass pollen, but the catalyst that really brings it out is car exhaust. Personally I believe that t…

This is still compatible with the hygiene hypothesis. It could be that your wife grew up in a “too clean” environment and hence her immune system became hypersensitive to substances that anybody in a less clean developing country would have no issues with. She has legitimate allergies; the hygiene hypothesis just tries to explain why many people get allergies in the first place.

A hypothesis which permits compatibility with any reality it is of limited practical value.

If it's ultimately not falsifiable, it's not science.

Re: Cleaning sprays have an impact on lung health comparable to cigarettes

#135

Post by ineedasername »

Something is odd here. From the study itself, the observed declines in lung function were only observed in females, not males. This was among respondents that identified as occupational cleaners too, so you can't just attribute that difference to "gender roles". Also, for women, the rate of decline was the same for occupational cleaners (it was their job) vs home cleaners (they cleaned their own home).

Nothing good comes from breathing cleaning spray, and this research references other pieces to suppprt that claim, but it seems possible that this research is honing in on some other common factor besides cleaning exposure, else degree of exposure is negligible in the outcomes and male biochemistry renders men immune to this effect.

Re: Cleaning sprays have an impact on lung health comparable to cigarettes

#136

Post by peferron »

opencl wrote: post #126
nextos wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good air filters are complex, not just an HEPA filter, but a series of stages. And an active carbon filter for chemicals.

What are these complex things they do that are anything but shoving air through a filter with a fan? How do they justify costing hundreds more than taping a HEPA filter+carbon filter to a fan yourself? The product page for the model recommended in that wirecutter article even has a cutaway view, showing that it's just a HEPA filter + carbon filter + fan.

They look better than DIYs, are typically quieter for the same cfm, and optionally have an automatic mode where the fan speed changes based on the detected air quality.

But yeah if you don't care how they look or how noisy they are just assemble one yourself and blast it on max. That's what I did for two years in China and it worked (had a separate particle counter to measure PM).

Re: Cleaning sprays have an impact on lung health comparable to cigarettes

#137

Post by outlace »

learnstats2 wrote: post #134
outlace wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is still compatible with the hygiene hypothesis. It could be that your wife grew up in a “too clean” environment and hence her immune system became hypersensitive to substances that anybody in a less clean developing country would have no issues with. She has legitimate allergies; the hygiene hypothesis just tries to explain why many people get allergies in the first place.

A hypothesis which permits compatibility with any reality it is of limited practical value. If it's ultimately not falsifiable, it's not science.

It’s a completely testable and falsifiable hypothesis. The original commenter seemed to be dismissing the hypothesis based on an anecdote that he thought falsified the hypothesis and I was pointing out that it does not. Of course any hypothesis that cannot be falsified is not worth entertaining.

Re: Cleaning sprays have an impact on lung health comparable to cigarettes

#138

Post by [deleted] »

learnstats2 wrote: post #134
outlace wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is still compatible with the hygiene hypothesis. It could be that your wife grew up in a “too clean” environment and hence her immune system became hypersensitive to substances that anybody in a less clean developing country would have no issues with. She has legitimate allergies; the hygiene hypothesis just tries to explain why many people get allergies in the first place.

A hypothesis which permits compatibility with any reality it is of limited practical value. If it's ultimately not falsifiable, it's not science.

[deleted]

Re: Cleaning sprays have an impact on lung health comparable to cigarettes

#139

Post by noja »

nextos wrote: post #12

I clean with a steamer. It doesn't project particles, and it's extremely good at disinfecting. I also use a vacuum cleaner with exceptionally low dust re-emission. And an air purifier. The only "chemicals" I use are an extremely mild lactic acid based cleaner and a pre/probiotic on toilets and kitchen tops. And I don't use any fragrances anywhere. My allergy problems have disappeared. I really recommend this approach…

> I clean with a steamer

What about mold?

Re: Cleaning sprays have an impact on lung health comparable to cigarettes

#140

Post by terraforming »

nextos wrote: post #31
hartator wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious as well what steamer and products you are using?

I use a Kärcher SC3 steam cleaner. It's cheap (~€100) and pretty good. Even the SC2 is decent. As an alternative, Polti high-end ones are excellent. They invented domestic steamers, and I've seen some used at hospitals. The have accessories for e.g. steaming your mattress to get rid of dust mites. I use a Miele C3 Silence vacuum cleaner. It's the cheapest (~€220) Miele vacuum cleaner that has top (A class in EU) filt…

Can you share the source for "that has top (A class in EU) filtration" please? I might be buying a new vacuum soon and would like to research it well before doing so.
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