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OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

blog.emacsen.net

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Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#131

Post by wingworks »

acabal wrote: post #15

I remember just a few years ago, I got a new phone and was interested in replacing as many Google apps with OSS maps that I could. (K9 instead of Google's mail app, etc.) Naturally I turned to OSM instead of Google Maps. But I was really surprised by how strange and difficult it was to install and use. As the author mentioned, OSM itself doesn't have any apps, which is very confusing. After some research I figured ou…

I had the same experience a few years ago, in the end I stuck with Google Maps, with Maps.me as a backup. But ideally, I'd like mapbox to release a Google Maps like app, as their maps are just stunning compared to anything else that renders OSM data. (I havn't yet found any other company using mapbox data to create a useful map I could use, usually it's just built in maps like uber)

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#132

Post by ben_w »

lucb1e wrote: post #87
acabal wrote: post #15

I remember just a few years ago, I got a new phone and was interested in replacing as many Google apps with OSS maps that I could. (K9 instead of Google's mail app, etc.) Naturally I turned to OSM instead of Google Maps. But I was really surprised by how strange and difficult it was to install and use. As the author mentioned, OSM itself doesn't have any apps, which is very confusing. After some research I figured ou…

> Needless to say I quickly gave up on using OSM and turned back to Google Maps--and I'm their perfect use case, a skilled techie with a deep interest in using free software! I can't imagine trying to explain how to use OSM to my mom My mom got an iPhone gifted from my dad, so there's mistake number one (I don't know of any decent OSM apps on that proprietary platform), but for what it's worth, my non-technical girlf…

> I don't know of any decent OSM apps on that proprietary platform

Is ViewRanger of use? (Disclosure: I used to work there).

It’s focused on outdoor pursuits such as hiking and biking rather than driving or public transit, but OSM is one of the available maps.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#133

Post by adamsea »

SteveCoast wrote: post #85

I'm the DRI for most of these problems. Random thoughts: I think David Ogilvy said something like "Search all the parks in your city, you'll find no statues of committees". Everyone was super keen to make OSM in to a web of committees, and this is one root of the problem from an organizational point of view. It's not super clear to me what the OSMF has done in the last (to pick a number) 5 years. (I don't regard "doi…

> "Search all the parks in your city, you'll find no statues of committees"

This doesn't necessarily mean that committees did not play a vital role in various historical events, just that people don't like to make statues of them.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#134

Post by spectre256 »

adamsea wrote: post #133
SteveCoast wrote: post #85

I'm the DRI for most of these problems. Random thoughts: I think David Ogilvy said something like "Search all the parks in your city, you'll find no statues of committees". Everyone was super keen to make OSM in to a web of committees, and this is one root of the problem from an organizational point of view. It's not super clear to me what the OSMF has done in the last (to pick a number) 5 years. (I don't regard "doi…

> "Search all the parks in your city, you'll find no statues of committees" This doesn't necessarily mean that committees did not play a vital role in various historical events, just that people don't like to make statues of them.

Agreed. While the quote has a certain elegance to it, and certainly some truth, I suspect many people who have statues were on committees of some sort.

For all their flaws committees are a primary way in which people pool their collective experience and effort which is ultimately how anything significant is built.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#135

Post by Doctor_Fegg »

fludlight wrote: post #73
detaro wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goes both ways: Openstreetmap is better for some things already, and I don't see Google catching up to it at them. A big issue is consistency though: OpenStreetMap varies way more in quality between regions, to the point that detailed conversations almost make no sense without disclaimers about where you are talking. OpenStreetMap is a really good map where a strong community exists (either locally or dedicated remot…

> Openstreetmap is better for some things already Such as?

Anything involving walking or cycling.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#136

Post by Doctor_Fegg »

sydd wrote: post #41
Avamander wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time to move away from awful raster maps and to vector maps?

There are some, e.g. OSMAnd on Android, they are awfully slow. I wonder why no one has written a proper, fast Opengl renderer for osm

They have. It’s called Mapbox GL, it’s fully open source and there’s a whole open source ecosystem around it.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#137

Post by Doctor_Fegg »

reaperducer wrote: post #31

He's not wrong. OSM is too complex for the majority of businesses. I know two that chose to pay Google for their mapping needs rather than jump through OSM's hoops. Imagine if the only way to get Linux on your computer was to download and compile the whole thing from source yourself, instead of buying or downloading a distro. If OSM had a mapping solution like Google's, it would thrive. And just for fun, it should un…

> If OSM had a mapping solution like Google's, it would thrive.

It does, it’s called Mapbox.

Plus a number of excellent smaller providers - Thunderforest, Geofabrik, Graphhopper etc.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#138

Post by nottorp »

I attempted to do an offline map with OSM/Mapbox/etc. I found out that it's a major bother even if you're willing to pay someone for the data.

Project got canceled so I don't have a final opinion, but i'll avoid OSM next time...

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#139

Post by jimmyrocks »

lucb1e wrote: post #105
jimmyrocks wrote: post #25

Thanks for posting this here! I feel like this is mostly good constructive criticism. I have given a few talks about using OSM data in the US government and it comes down to authoritative data sources and validation. It's a great starting point, but there needs to be another layer (or two) of validation before it can be used at the enterprise level. The National Map Corps has some good examples of how this can be imp…

> it will become less authoritative Or better than the authoritative original. Like with Wikipedia, where you often hear that people prefer to cite a single person as source (because "anyone could edit Wikipedia", as if no single person can setup a website or write a paper), at least Wikipedia has had thousands of reads and often dozens or hundreds of reviews. People are scared of the idea "it could be anyone", while…

In many (most?) cases it can be better than the authoritative sources. But there is also the possibility for vandalism or sloppy work.

There are established ways to combat this (peer review, data stewards, reputation scoring) and even OSM has a checkbox for further validation.

OSM will never fit every use case, but it's good to understand where it falls short and can improve.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is in Trouble

#140

Post by bethling »

jedberg wrote: post #97
bahmboo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google maps does update route in real time. They also integrate Waze data since they own them. Waze was taking heat for routing onto residential side streets which makes me wonder if Google is taking a softer approach. Interesting that you mapped your route with Google maps and Waze at the same time and compared them. I'll have to give that a shot.

They update in real time, but Waze predicts traffic, which is better. For example, in the Bay Area, if you are coming from Sunnyvale and going to Berkeley, you could go up the peninsula side or the east side. GMaps might tell you to take the peninsula route, because right now, the bridge is clear. Waze however will predict that the bridge will be crowded in 40 minutes when you get there, so it will take you up the ea…

I actually find the opposite. :) Google Map's estimates tend to be close for my work commute (within 5-10 minutes).

Waze on the other hand will often give me an estimate that's 20 minutes faster than Google Maps, and with the traffic that eventually pop up on that route, take me 20 minutes longer than what Google Maps estimated.

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