How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? • Hacker News Board

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#131

Post by maxxxxx » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

staunch wrote: post #3

> In the UK, class consciousness is woven into the national identity. In America, however, people often like to pretend that a class system doesn’t really exist. But, of course, it does. This is the most insidious part. The media in the US has historically been 100% controlled by rich people, and all major media still is. The evil rich people figured out that if you start a gender and race war among the 99%, you can…

If anything the internet has made it easier for the already powerful to control ever larger shares of the economy.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#132

Post by mprev » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

gadders wrote: post #68

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really is true that there are unspoken codes and mores to follow, and it was uncomfortable when I didn't Any examples spring to mind?

Being English is a minefield. Here's an old list but some of it still definitely applies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English

Reading all the above comments makes it seem that being British is supremely easy compared to navigating American class.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#133

Post by kbenson » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

trowawee wrote: post #107

emodendroket wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - What and how you eat, although that one has relaxed a little bit over the last few years as street food has been gentrified and made trendier. I'm so damn sick of all this stuff. It's like nobody can just make a normal dish without putting some insipid "twist" on it anymore.

Really? I grew up in the Midwest where chicken fried rice from the local Chinese place was about as exotic as it got, and our standard meals were some form of overcooked meat, potatoes, and a token green. The evolution of the food and restaurant scenes in the US is one of the things I'm pretty happy about. It can definitely be handled poorly, but for the most part I think it's been a positive.

I think what's being referred to is less about more options, and more about combining options in a new way so you can up sell it. Getting access to your first Thai, Indian etc. restaurant is amazing. Suffering through someone's new tex-mex/filipino/Eskimo fusion because friends want to try it is often not.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#134

Post by coldtea » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

cryptoz wrote: post #84

trowawee wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the author of the parent comment, but my family shifted from solidly middle-class to members of the 1% over the course of a few years in the early 2000s (my teenage years) as our family business became significantly more successful. Here are some of the things I've experienced that strike me as examples of that: - Talking specifically about money (how much high-ticket items specifically cost, how much anyone spec…

That all sounds so miserable. I think I'd rather stay middle class than deal with that stuff.

You have that as middle class too.

Try liking somethings considered as "white trash" hobbies/entertainment/activities, or as "posh" ones as a middle class person.

(E.g. a middle class high schooler who likes the opera instead of say, Hip Hop or whatever. Or wear some Comme De Garcons clothes around middle class dressed people, or stuff you bought at the Dollar Store...)

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#135

Post by _alias » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 7:13 PM UTC

dizzystar wrote: post #82

This article resonates with me on many levels. I went from below $10/hr to 5x that and never experienced anything in between. The struggle is huge, and I keep having to look inside myself to figure out what "my people" is supposed to mean. A huge different that's obvious to me is the language we use. I often wonder why no one's mother didn't fill the these people's mouth with dawn liquid soap and slap the child silly…

Do you have a good heuristic for bullshit detection? Anything to look out for?

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#136

Post by lev99 » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 7:13 PM UTC

wmeredith wrote: post #127

dizzystar wrote: post #82

This article resonates with me on many levels. I went from below $10/hr to 5x that and never experienced anything in between. The struggle is huge, and I keep having to look inside myself to figure out what "my people" is supposed to mean. A huge different that's obvious to me is the language we use. I often wonder why no one's mother didn't fill the these people's mouth with dawn liquid soap and slap the child silly…

> I often wonder why no one's mother didn't fill the these people's mouth with dawn liquid soap and slap the child silly, but then I realize that honesty wasn't a life or death situation for them. What? This is just child abuse. Please expand on what circumstances in which this considered OK?

In my mind child abuse is hurting a child for selfish reasons and discipline is punishment to cause behavioral changes. Some cultures allow for different severity of punishments. However the intent of the parent is very important when labeling child abuse.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#137

Post by gonehome » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 7:13 PM UTC

sjg007 wrote: post #118

rhizome wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the next time a rich person gives you an askance look and you immediately ask them to explain themselves, guess what, you just equalized yourself with them socially without having to learn which fork to use first. Or you've shibboleth'ed yourself out by not already knowing what the askance look meant.

This is the outsider play. It basically works by default if you’re a foreigner (aka an American in England) or vice versa. Americans can get away with it via improv or social ability sure... less so if there’s a language barrier.

It's also a good source of comedy, pointing out little things like that and going into detail about them.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#138

Post by ambicapter » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 7:13 PM UTC

dizzystar wrote: post #82

This article resonates with me on many levels. I went from below $10/hr to 5x that and never experienced anything in between. The struggle is huge, and I keep having to look inside myself to figure out what "my people" is supposed to mean. A huge different that's obvious to me is the language we use. I often wonder why no one's mother didn't fill the these people's mouth with dawn liquid soap and slap the child silly…

> As a real example, we often get articles on Hacker News that discusses the best way to hire, best way to land a job, best way to self-learn, and so on. It took me years to realize that these articles were all shaded in a heavy fog of bullshit, and it took me many years to realize that the posters who upvote and share these articles are not only aware of the heavy fog, but are able to read though the fog. If I was able to go back in time and tell my autodidact self on thing, it was to learn about bullshit, and it's something I always advise those who trying to self learn.

Tell me more, please.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#139

Post by segmondy » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 7:13 PM UTC

trowawee wrote: post #87

stcredzero wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of that is covered in: Class: A Guide Through the American Status System by Paul Fussell Link: http://a.co/406UQB1

I read that back in high school. I'd be interested to see how it holds up today, given the massive increase in overall inequality and the hollowing out of the middle class in the US.

Still holds up. Some of the social signaling has changed, but the book still holds up quite well from what I recall the last time I read it.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#140

Post by montecarl » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 7:13 PM UTC

wmeredith wrote: post #127

dizzystar wrote: post #82

This article resonates with me on many levels. I went from below $10/hr to 5x that and never experienced anything in between. The struggle is huge, and I keep having to look inside myself to figure out what "my people" is supposed to mean. A huge different that's obvious to me is the language we use. I often wonder why no one's mother didn't fill the these people's mouth with dawn liquid soap and slap the child silly…

> I often wonder why no one's mother didn't fill the these people's mouth with dawn liquid soap and slap the child silly, but then I realize that honesty wasn't a life or death situation for them. What? This is just child abuse. Please expand on what circumstances in which this considered OK?

While this used to be a not uncommon form of punishment, it is now typically used as an empty threat ("someone ought to wash your mouth out with soap") or to criticize someone's foul mouth.