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LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

linuxboot.org

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Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#131

Post by RickSanchez2600 »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #81
johncolanduoni wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have multiple EFI system partitions on the same disk. The Windows installer does not like this, but it won't affect the actual boot process after it's installed. The Linux distros I've seen don't mind at all, since /boot/efi is usually mounted by UUID in your fstab.

No you really can't. There can only be one ESP and that's in the spec. You can have multiple partitions each assigned as /boot for a different OS, but there can only be one ESP which is used by the firmware to store its settings, etc. The EFI spec [0] is officially silent about the presence of multiple EFI system partitions on non-removable hard drives , but explicitly forbids multiple ESPs on removable disks, per §1…

Thank you, you literally saved my life when I tried to get my Windows Vista and Linux partitions working again. Some Windows Vista update or something corrupted the boot loader or something and your software fixed it.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#132

Post by RickSanchez2600 »

orionblastar wrote: post #125

I remember my Commodore 64 days where you turned on the C64 and it booted right into BASIC because it loaded BASIC from a ROM, or it loaded software from a cartridge. The 1541 floppy drive was extra, or the tape or modem etc. The thing I liked most about the C64 was booting into BASIC as soon as you turned it on. If Linux becomes the Firmware or installed on Firmware on an EEPROM or whatever, it can boot into a LiveC…

People have tried to reboot the Commodore IP only to make some Linux version with all the emulators on it running on a PC in a keyboard case that resembles a C64 or Amiga 500. I think yours being a box that has expansion slots would do a lot better. They could not figure out how to monetize the ROMs as TOSEC on Archive.org and other places has virtually every ROM, Tape, and Floppy ever made for the C64.

I like that idea of selling C64 games on Steam the same way they sell Sega Genesis games. Just port VICE to use Steam and verify codes for purchases for different ROMs to load after being paid for.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#133

Post by zbentley »

igravious wrote: post #106
dogma1138 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NVRAM on PC/server main boards is cleared with the RTCRST (Real Time Clock Reset) jumper. On laptops it’s a combination of keys usually some older ones would require removing the battery for a specific amount of time.

Great, but what magic key combo–or combos?

Depends on your laptop and its manufacturer. Check the manual, or, if using aftermarket firmware, the manual for that.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#134

Post by zbentley »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #89
BenjiWiebe wrote: post #52

BTW, on the flip side of the UEFI haters, i.e. things that I can do with UEFI more easily than BIOS (or at all). I can now have a normal partition to put my boot loaders in rather than a hidden chunk at the beginning of the disk. I can easily update, add and remove boot entries from the OS command line. I can forgo bootloaders entirely and use Linux as UEFI application. I can use GPT and finally partition as much as…

I (see footnote) started off hating the UEFI because it changed everything for me and others working with bootloaders, but at this point I'm just ambivalent about it. It trades one set of problems for another. The biggest problem is with shoddy implementations and poor development/engineering practices by hardware and software vendors (I have some devices lying around from R&D that brick themselves if the ESP is eras…

I learned more from this comment than I did from 6 months of trial and error installation/provisioning/partitioning of various lab computers (macs, hackintoshes, mac/hack + windows, windows, and BSD OSes). Thanks for all your hard work!

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#135

Post by zbentley »

peterwwillis wrote: post #105
gatmne wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't. Should I? Why?

It's now hosting this project, and seems to have created this page and reformed the project a bit. And have you seen the foundation's website? They have a tiered sponsor page to act as badge of honor for the tech companies with the most money. Their board of directors are 22 of some of the most powerful tech companies in the world. They "host" an amalgam of different tech products (actually working in legal entities…

Best case: the linux foundation is, despite corporate influence, genuinely trying to advance the state of the art for its own sake.

Worst case: this is how open source software development has always been, caveat a few "genesis innovations" several decades ago that kicked off the current business/buzzword-backed hype-fest.

Either way, it's no use complaining.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#137

Post by Annatar »

thudson wrote: post #78
BenjiWiebe wrote: post #52

BTW, on the flip side of the UEFI haters, i.e. things that I can do with UEFI more easily than BIOS (or at all). I can now have a normal partition to put my boot loaders in rather than a hidden chunk at the beginning of the disk. I can easily update, add and remove boot entries from the OS command line. I can forgo bootloaders entirely and use Linux as UEFI application. I can use GPT and finally partition as much as…

With LinuxBoot you can use any filesystem that Linux supports, not just FAT. You can update boot entries by editing shell scripts, rather than manipulating opaque NVRAM variables. You can run Linux applications straight from the ROM if you want to do that. You can avoid legacy partitions entirely and use LVM for flexible volume management. And... You can build it yourself and verify that the reproducible build matche…

All very good and very valid points. Just wouldn’t want to do that with Linux. OpenBSD or FreeBSD, yes; illumos, yes; Linux - out of the question.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#138

Post by aplorbust »

aplorbust wrote: post #112
aplorbust wrote: post #36

IMO, the problems that [U]EFI introduces (that far exceed the historical limitations it overcomes) should be self-evident . IMO, he should not have to argue against having multiple, redundant copies of drivers, shells and utilties each accessible only in its own "OS" (UEFI, GRUB, OS). It should not be a debate. This is definitely not "defense in depth". IMO, whomever controls the first OS controls the computer becaus…

50+ points. Amazing. Anyones guess what this means but at the least I think it shows users1 have opinions about UEFI. I think it is a good thing if computer owners care about initialization, bootloaders, owner control and freedom of choice. Clearly some do care. Hats off to those folks. 1 Besides only this one: http://yarchive.net/comp/linux/efi.html

60 and rising. Can we make it to 70?

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#139

Post by endymi0n »

madez wrote: post #58
Santosh83 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is in the hands of the firmware/hardware manufacturers. AFAIK, for instance, the version of Minix that serves as Intel's ME will continue to be operational even if the UEFI is replaced by Linux. The issue is that 'firmware' actually means many different blobs of software in various ROMs spread throughout the system, from disk controllers to GPUs to memory controllers to NIC and so on. You will never be able to v…

That's why it is important to not buy random shiny devices. Open source hardware like for example the Teres-1 [0] are what allows us to stay in control. I can't wait for even more open successors based on RISC-V processors. [0] https://www.olimex.com/Products/DIY-Laptop/

I‘m sorry, but 99% of the population will prefer a random shiny device that plays their cat video to one that lets them be „in control“ but have them recompile their kernel with the correct wifi driver before it works for them.

With the current ecosystem, it‘s just much cheaper to mix and match commercial off the shelf solutions that are way too powerful for the job than custom building an optimized solution, because it „just works“.

Heck, I‘ll take a Raspberry Pi over an Arduino any day to automate a simple relay, just because with real Go and Linux I can use the same tooling I‘m using every day at work.

Re: LinuxBoot: Linux as Firmware

#140

Post by pjmlp »

vanderZwan wrote: post #44
euyyn wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check Ron Minnich's talk explaining the why: https://schd.ws/hosted_files/osseu17/84/Replace%20UEFI%20wit... (The video of the presentation is linked in the OP). There's already two and a half obscure OS's running underneath the OS for booting. So this replaces all that crap with something lean and good.

> DigitalTermometerSensor (sic) Heh, that gave me a chuckle > Userland written in Go ( http://u-root.tk ) So much for Go not being a systems programming language.

> So much for Go not being a systems programming language.

There are other examples already.

Fuchsia TCP/IP stack and file system driver management utilities are implemented in Go.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/golang-dev/2xuYHcP0Fdc/tKb1P...

Android's new GPU debugger is written in Go.

https://github.com/google/gapid

An then there are some bare-metal experiments like G.E.R.T.

https://github.com/ycoroneos/G.E.R.T

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