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9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

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Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#131

Post by lazyasciiart »

crispyambulance wrote: post #51
Apocryphon wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also an argument that's been made that kids go to school too early in the day and school start time should be postponed to later in the morning, because they need more hours of sleep.

They need a solid 6-8 hours of sleep, like other humans. I suspect the problem is that teens just stay awake FAR LONGER than is advisable perhaps to maximize their free unstructured time at night and to minimize the crushing grind of the mornings? I expect that if the school start time was shifted to 9am, the kids would just stay up until 5AM instead of only 3AM.

Most teenagers aren't staying awake til 3am, it turns out. And you can test your theory in several ways - either by checking American teenager sleep habits against those in other countries where school does start later (e.g Australia - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2941425/figure/...), or by looking for the existing studies that have been done on changing school times (e.g this one in Norway https://teensneedsleep.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/school-st...)

Summary: your theory doesn't appear to be supported by data.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#132

Post by adjagu »

khedoros1 wrote: post #118
adjagu wrote: post #55

This all sounds good unless you work a "shift" style schedule. Every single person I know works what is considered first shift (approximately 6/7/8/9am to 2/3/4/5pm). Some of them have tried second and third shifts, but they always go back to first shift because "second/third shift don't work for me" they say. Now for me I work better at night/early morning. Because of this I have worked third shift (midnight to 8am)…

I spend 12-15 minutes each direction, driving to and from work for my "first shift" job. I think I'd ask for 15-20% more if I had a 40 minute commute, and still resent having to drive that long.

I could have a shorter commute if I lived closer to where I work, but then I would also run into higher rent. A one bedroom closer to work would be double my current rent and I wold also lose a bedroom in the process.

Honestly I enjoy my commute. For me it's not long and I get time to get into and out of my work mindset on the way to and from work. Most of the time I end up listening to classical music or books on tape during my commute.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#133

Post by adjagu »

meesterdude wrote: post #85
adjagu wrote: post #55

This all sounds good unless you work a "shift" style schedule. Every single person I know works what is considered first shift (approximately 6/7/8/9am to 2/3/4/5pm). Some of them have tried second and third shifts, but they always go back to first shift because "second/third shift don't work for me" they say. Now for me I work better at night/early morning. Because of this I have worked third shift (midnight to 8am)…

neat! I'm often a nightowl myself, and often reflect on how life would be different if we spread out the working hours for people more - so most places would be 24-hour, and roads wouldn't be so packed.

It would be different if each shift only contained 1/3 of the workforce at a time. Rush hour(s) should contain much less traffic volume this way (since now there are what, 3 of them per day?). Overall there would be a slight increase in continuous traffic volume (as in at any given time of the day/night more people would be out and about).

I do wonder if cities could benefit from a 24 hour schedule. Sure, during first shift the cities near me are bustling with people and activity. Second shift there are still people about and things to do, but after 8pm or so most cities around here start to look barren. Third shift. Shoot, it's me, the police, the newspaper delivery drivers and pretty much no one else.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#134

Post by khedoros1 »

adjagu wrote: post #132
khedoros1 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spend 12-15 minutes each direction, driving to and from work for my "first shift" job. I think I'd ask for 15-20% more if I had a 40 minute commute, and still resent having to drive that long.

I could have a shorter commute if I lived closer to where I work, but then I would also run into higher rent. A one bedroom closer to work would be double my current rent and I wold also lose a bedroom in the process. Honestly I enjoy my commute. For me it's not long and I get time to get into and out of my work mindset on the way to and from work. Most of the time I end up listening to classical music or books on ta…

I've never enjoyed driving, and I'm not in a super-expensive area. If I had a longer commute, I'd probably find something more than the radio to listen to, but we're talking about close to an hour a day band-aiding over something I find unpleasant.

It's one reason I dread leaving my current job; I suspect I'm going to have to take a serious hit to my quality of life.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#135

Post by krylon »

logfromblammo wrote: post #129
krylon wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But DST is in summer , isn't it? At least that is what I have been told: In summer, days are so long and start so early that we might as well move the whole day back by an hour, so get up early, finish work early and still have a couple of hours of daylight left. Full disclosure: I am not a fan of DST, but I do not expect the current situation to change. In Europe, almost(?) all countries use it, so if just Germany (…

DST is the civil equivalent of changing the behavior of some electronic hardware by doubling the clock signal instead of reprogramming and re-flashing the firmware. It's simple to do, but is also stupid and inefficient, and causes a lot of obscure unintended consequences later on. I'd actually be fine with converting all time and date records, all calendars, and all clocks to integer Julian Day Number, plus the integ…

I vaguely remember that astronomers sometimes use the Julian calendar for that very reason.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#136

Post by collyw »

krylon wrote: post #50
patchorang wrote: post #23

I live in a region where winter days are very short. I go to work and it's dark, I leave work and it's dark. I don't understand why we have decided to go sit in buildings during daylight hours. Even with a 40-hour week, I would love if the work day was shifted to allow one to get sunlight for a few hours each day.

> I live in a region where winter days are very short. I go to work and it's dark, I leave work and it's dark. I have had that experience for years. It can be quite disheartening to see the sun set while you are on your way home. I do not mind the cold in the winter, but the darkness can literally be depressing. Last year, after some health issues, my boss surprised me (in a good way), when he offered me to reduce my…

Biggest disappointment when I moved from grey and rainy Scotland to Spain.

The weather in winter is close to summer in Scotland during the day, but by the time I was out of the office it was dark.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#137

Post by mclightning »

patchorang wrote: post #23

I live in a region where winter days are very short. I go to work and it's dark, I leave work and it's dark. I don't understand why we have decided to go sit in buildings during daylight hours. Even with a 40-hour week, I would love if the work day was shifted to allow one to get sunlight for a few hours each day.

+1, from Malmö, Sweden... moved here from Istanbul, Turkey. Dark winters are killing me!

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#138

Post by collyw »

whatyoucantsay wrote: post #123
patchorang wrote: post #23

I live in a region where winter days are very short. I go to work and it's dark, I leave work and it's dark. I don't understand why we have decided to go sit in buildings during daylight hours. Even with a 40-hour week, I would love if the work day was shifted to allow one to get sunlight for a few hours each day.

Forgive my ignorance, but aren't such places bitterly cold outside?

Scotland has pretty short days during winter, but it doesn't usually get "bitterly cold" because of the gulf stream. Though I guess it depends on your definition of "bitterly cold" - it will snow but it tends to be mushy and wet because it rarely stays below zero for long.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#139

Post by mangodrunk »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #95
davehtaylor wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the ideas aren't necessarily generalizable, but what if we shifted to an idea that people's individual schedules reflect when they specifically are most productive. Someone else who replied said they were most productive in the morning. Great! Let them have and earlier start time. For me, I'm completely useless in the morning. Sure, I can be in the office at 8:00am, but you're not getting any meaningful…

It turns out there are people who literally believe that having multiple people in a room is 'productive' even when there is no agenda, no goal and no fucking point to doing so. So that kind of person sees 'being at the office at the same time as other people' as a goal in itself.

It's rather annoying that there's a thought that by random chance something (who knows what that something would be) can come out of people being in the same place at the same time.

I do see value in being at the same place/time when you are working with someone, as it's so much easier and more fluid when collaborating in person.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#140

Post by mangodrunk »

ubertaco wrote: post #57
davehtaylor wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the ideas aren't necessarily generalizable, but what if we shifted to an idea that people's individual schedules reflect when they specifically are most productive. Someone else who replied said they were most productive in the morning. Great! Let them have and earlier start time. For me, I'm completely useless in the morning. Sure, I can be in the office at 8:00am, but you're not getting any meaningful…

Shifting a schedule is one thing (in fact, I work on a shifted schedule on days I commute; from 6:45am or 7am to 3pm, due to bad local traffic); cutting your workday effectively in half is another. This article is touting "forget your 8-hour/9-hour job, just work a 5-hour day instead!" That'd be nice from a free-time perspective, but it doesn't line up with business needs.

If only we started valuing free time as a society. If all the automation and productivity gains, you would think we could work less now. What modern comforts necessitate an 8 hour work schedule?

I would rather have more free time and less money.

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