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Cape Town could be the first city to run out of water

bbc.com

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Re: Cape Town could be the first city to run out of water

#131

Post by Someone »

baxtr wrote: post #47
whatusername wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it’s bigger in area than any two European countries (excluding Russia) combined. Just because there’s a drought in one part of Spain __ there might be plenty of water somewhere in France.

My point is: if there’s a case to fly water (in form of grapes) to Europe, why would they not move water from one place in SA to another?

It could bring in money that is needed to pay for moving other water across the country.

It could also be profitable to ship out water inside grapes and, at the same time, import an equivalent amount of water in barrels. See it as Europe shipping water to SA to be packed inside grapes.

More likely, though, that is because Europeans are willing/able to pay more for that grapes/water. In a capitalistic world, it is the poor who will feel water shortages most.

Re: Cape Town could be the first city to run out of water

#132

Post by SeoxyS »

dragonwriter wrote: post #128
SeoxyS wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed entirely. Used to live in Durban and left >10 years ago now with zero confidence in the nation. I won't be surprised to see the whole country descend into chaos soon. The apartheid government may have been morally reprehensible, but at least it knew how to run a country. Either option is kind of shitty…

The apartheid government no longer exists because it caused the country to descend into so much chaos that the rulers gave up trying to continue. So, by the standard you imply with your comparison, the apartheid government— even more certainly than the present regime —did not know how to run a country.

The apartheid government no longer exists because (1) open racism was no longer tenable in the face of an evolving society, and (2) the worldwide sanctions placed on it became too great.

That's fine, but that's also completely orthogonal to the point, which is that:

1/ By most standards, the effectiveness of government has plummetted since the end of apartheid. Crime is up; corruption has increased; resources are running out (nation-wide electricity blackouts last decade, now water); etc.

2/ Open government-sponsored racism still exists today, but most of it is considered to be commendable under the banner of affirmative action.

If we were to take race entirely out of the picture, the apartheid regime would be considered far more effective than the ANC regime. That, of course, is neither realistic nor fair… But we should aspire to a post-racial world where we race is no longer relevant, where both apartheid and affirmative action are considered revolting abominations, but also where we judge governments based on their net effectiveness.

Re: Cape Town could be the first city to run out of water

#134

Post by Ratelman »

gonehome wrote: post #103
overlordalex wrote: post #3

I live in Cape Town, and this article is missing some points about whats been going on: 1. "Day 0" has been moved forward - we're now expected to run out of water 21 April. 2. The daily limit of water per person is 87l but only ~50% of consumers meet this target 3. This is considered a 1/1000 year event (in contrast to 1/100 experienced elsewhere in the country recently). However due to increased population this is b…

Are you looking to get out? It doesn't sound like things are trending in a good directly and water supply scarcity seems likely to cause instability and other issues. Why stay there?

So my situation is I bought a house here, still paying off the bond, so selling is not really an option at the moment (haven't paid off that much and no one wants to buy a house in an area where there will be no water) Not really a situation where I can just cut my losses (buying a house is a lot of debt) and go

Re: Cape Town could be the first city to run out of water

#135

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

nukeop wrote: post #92
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one got the reference. but HN comment style strongly discourages low-effort jokes. It doesn't add information. I'm not surprised that it was downvoted, whether people "got it" or not. This is fine, HN is not reddit.

God forbid somebody makes a joke! This is a professional website, grim attitude is required.

> a zero-effort joke that contributes nothing new

> low-effort jokes. It doesn't add information.

And then

> God forbid somebody makes a joke!

You're misreading what is being said.

Re: Cape Town could be the first city to run out of water

#136

Post by Sacho »

SeoxyS wrote: post #132
dragonwriter wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The apartheid government no longer exists because it caused the country to descend into so much chaos that the rulers gave up trying to continue. So, by the standard you imply with your comparison, the apartheid government— even more certainly than the present regime —did not know how to run a country.

The apartheid government no longer exists because (1) open racism was no longer tenable in the face of an evolving society, and (2) the worldwide sanctions placed on it became too great. That's fine, but that's also completely orthogonal to the point, which is that: 1/ By most standards, the effectiveness of government has plummetted since the end of apartheid. Crime is up; corruption has increased; resources are run…

It's imposible to divorce the effectiveness of government from global phenomenon and long-term knock-on effects from previous governments. For example, the brownout crisis - was it because the ANC government mismanaged funding and refused to repair, renew and build electrical power plants, or was it because the situation left by the apartheid government was unsustainable, and the ANC was left with a "you deal with it" post-it note? It's difficult to know without getting into the specifics of each issue.

My point is that comparing government effectiveness is not as easy as looking at results. This was exemplified by many of the communist satellite states to the USSR, which it sponsored for political gain to its own economic detriment. The satellite states flourished under communism, and as soon as the regime collapsed they suffered - was it the newly-elected democratic government's fault that industry had collapsed and there was rampant inflation, or was it just a long-term effect of previous government policy?

Re: Cape Town could be the first city to run out of water

#137

Post by [deleted] »

goldenkey wrote: post #64
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but hunting and gathering in the bush doesn't do a damn about increasing technology and getting us off this planet. All it takes is one planetary scale disaster, and we're done for.

Actually from what I've read, hunter gatherers had 8+ hours of free time per day. They weren't constantly running in fear of predators as usually thought. There was plenty of time for invention if inclined.

[deleted]

Re: Cape Town could be the first city to run out of water

#138

Post by chesimov »

Sacho wrote: post #136
SeoxyS wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The apartheid government no longer exists because (1) open racism was no longer tenable in the face of an evolving society, and (2) the worldwide sanctions placed on it became too great. That's fine, but that's also completely orthogonal to the point, which is that: 1/ By most standards, the effectiveness of government has plummetted since the end of apartheid. Crime is up; corruption has increased; resources are run…

It's imposible to divorce the effectiveness of government from global phenomenon and long-term knock-on effects from previous governments. For example, the brownout crisis - was it because the ANC government mismanaged funding and refused to repair, renew and build electrical power plants, or was it because the situation left by the apartheid government was unsustainable, and the ANC was left with a "you deal with it…

Fair point, but choosing the electricity crisis as an example is not helping your claim - the Apartheid lot left us with something like 50% overcapacity and almost the cheapest electricity in the world at the time. We actually have less electricity generating capacity right now than at that time. The lack of generting capacity has severely constrained our economy since. When the crisis first bit in the 2000s, many mines had to shut down for the first time in 200 years of continuous operations.

The government had an initial plan to redirect overcapacity in many areas (not just electricity) to rolling out services to those neglected by the Apartheid govt, and then after that to start building infrastructure again (not sure of specifics, maybe 5 years on?). The problem is that in most cases, this never happened. Hence the limits of most infrastructure are gradually being hit, with a knock-on effect for the economy.

Re: Cape Town could be the first city to run out of water

#139

Post by czue »

overlordalex wrote: post #3

I live in Cape Town, and this article is missing some points about whats been going on: 1. "Day 0" has been moved forward - we're now expected to run out of water 21 April. 2. The daily limit of water per person is 87l but only ~50% of consumers meet this target 3. This is considered a 1/1000 year event (in contrast to 1/100 experienced elsewhere in the country recently). However due to increased population this is b…

Another Cape Town resident here. I've been trying to consolidate a lot of this information (and links to official sources) on http://www.capetowndrought.com. Just sharing in case helpful. :)

Re: Cape Town could be the first city to run out of water

#140

Post by eisa01 »

chesimov wrote: post #138
Sacho wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's imposible to divorce the effectiveness of government from global phenomenon and long-term knock-on effects from previous governments. For example, the brownout crisis - was it because the ANC government mismanaged funding and refused to repair, renew and build electrical power plants, or was it because the situation left by the apartheid government was unsustainable, and the ANC was left with a "you deal with it…

Fair point, but choosing the electricity crisis as an example is not helping your claim - the Apartheid lot left us with something like 50% overcapacity and almost the cheapest electricity in the world at the time. We actually have less electricity generating capacity right now than at that time. The lack of generting capacity has severely constrained our economy since. When the crisis first bit in the 2000s, many mi…

If you have 50% overcapacity you have completely failed to plan your electricity system - that't not really a measure of success
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