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Telegram plans multi-billion dollar ICO for chat cryptocurrency

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131–140 of 145 posts

Re: Telegram plans multi-billion dollar ICO for chat cryptocurrency

#131
post #62

This is a disaster, as it will likely succeed and in doing so make the entire world less secure. Telegram is not a secure messaging platform, despite marketing themselves as such. Signal has built a simple, seamless, and beautiful messaging platform whose security is based on solid cryptography, not marketing, bug contests, or chasing the latest tech fad.

> Signal has built a simple, seamless, and beautiful messaging platform

I admire Signal for its security, and Mr. Marlinspike et al. have contributed much to the field but seamless and beautiful are not words I'd use to describe Signal.

- Their desktop "app" is but an Electron app that feels native nowhere and is built from their old Chrome plugin

- The app requires my phone to be on and connected (I am aware of why this is).

- Their iPad app is non-existent and if ever released (no indication I can find that it is even planned) it would likely have the same requirement to keep my phone on and connected.

- It doesn't appear possible to search conversations.

- If I transfer to a new device, all my messages are gone unless I restore from a backup.

To give an alternative secure messenger that has less of these problems, I've been investigating Wire. It has some of the same drawbacks vs Telegram but lacks the primary flaw of Signal's design: the dependence on my phone.

But both Wire and Signal have one problem that I can't easily work around: No one I know uses them. No one I know wants to use them, because the user experience and convenience of the less secure messengers outweigh the decreased security.

Re: Telegram plans multi-billion dollar ICO for chat cryptocurrency

#132
post #46

What if everybody starts making their coins, Amazon, Facebook, Chinese companies, etc. Suddenly it sounds like I'll end up paying tx fees to convert coins. Doesn't sound very good... And what currency should I get my salary in?

>And what currency should I get my salary in?

The same currency that you must use to keep away the taxman, and that can always be used to settle debts.

Re: Telegram plans multi-billion dollar ICO for chat cryptocurrency

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's quite a blanket statement. There's a bunch of cases where companies trust each other enough to share the data for the benefit of the industry - credit reports being one example. Other industries have bad customer lists, etc. So let's say you do set up a meeting with Experian, TransUnion and EquiFax and now need to prepare a slide deck to convince them to migrate their existing tech (let's say a master MySQL wi…

IMHO that's not how a disruption on that level would ever play out. If a future blockchain replace those companies/services, it will be (again, IMO) because a team decided to create a blockchain who would provide those services, and instead of trying to please the incumbents, it would be the lower tier providers who would see value on it (users, faster time to market, etc), and little by little it would compound into…

I disagree on the Pandora analogy and hostile incumbents.

In corporate IT the mighty dollar rules the day. MySQL and Postgres had hostile incumbents, Linux and open source in general had hostile incumbents, commodity hardware for the data center had hostile incumbents, AWS (or Google Cloud) had hostile incumbents, Splunk, Cloudera, SalesForce and any other SAAS company had plenty of hostile incumbents.

Yet end of the day they were able to show cost savings, and either sell it at the CTO/CIO level to existing companies or enable startups with much more rigid cost base, which in big companies quickly got the CIO's attention.

There's nothing particular about blockchain tech that I can see that introduces a major game changer on the cost savings front. Launch two identical startups today, one on top of blockchain, another on top of MySQL. Will the first one have lower operating costs 1, 5, 10, 20 years down the road?

Re: Telegram plans multi-billion dollar ICO for chat cryptocurrency

#134
post #59

I suggested about six months ago that Signal should have its own ICO/cryptocurrency. Good way to get an open source project funded. Look at Brave, IPFS, and others.

I would be willing to contribute a lot if signal could even reach half the usability level of telegram. Signal is losing many users to telegram because of UI/UX.

Re: Telegram plans multi-billion dollar ICO for chat cryptocurrency

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. This is actually orthogonal to decentralization question. Very much depends on their proof of stake implementation.

I agree. It's more like they're retaining control of the money supply like a central bank does. It give you the power to indirectly influence the price / exchange rate of the currency, but you're not involved with every transaction.

Except that you are with Proof of Stake.

Re: Telegram plans multi-billion dollar ICO for chat cryptocurrency

#136
post #47
post #30

What's the value of the in-app currency being a cryptocurrency (putting aside hype/pr), vs calling it a virtual currency, a Mysql database with a API on top? Dropping to a technical level, if the miners are all run by Telegram, then I think it's just a pointless overhead over Mysql. On the other hand, if anybody can run miners, I don't comprehend what value that adds, what it means.

To add to your point, the article states that Telegram will try to retain a 52% stake in its economy to control it. "Telegram will The white paper also makes clear that four percent of the supply of Grams (200 million Grams) will be reserved for Telegram’s development team with a four-year vesting period. Telegram also plans to retain “at least 52 percent” of the entire supply of the Grams cryptocurrency to protect i…

This is really the deal breaker. If they had a fair distribution function then I'd be ok adopting it. This is really one of the virtues of Bitcoin. Everybody had their chance - even after significant media attention - to help participate and bring about the change.

Re: Telegram plans multi-billion dollar ICO for chat cryptocurrency

#137
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but if the Telegram app/platform was the only place I could conduct commerce using their money, I'm still screwed, unless a "secondary" marketplace emerges where you can use it. In which case, why not use Bitcoin or Eth to begin with? (Genuine question.)

>In which case, why not use Bitcoin Is there anyone using bitcoin for transactions anymore? Fees are absurdly prohibitive.

Crypto markets use it a lot.

Re: Telegram plans multi-billion dollar ICO for chat cryptocurrency

#139
post #64
post #30

What's the value of the in-app currency being a cryptocurrency (putting aside hype/pr), vs calling it a virtual currency, a Mysql database with a API on top? Dropping to a technical level, if the miners are all run by Telegram, then I think it's just a pointless overhead over Mysql. On the other hand, if anybody can run miners, I don't comprehend what value that adds, what it means.

It's a cash grab, just like 99% of the rest of the ICOs out there. They know there are lots of poorly informed, greedy greater fools trampling each other to give their money away right now, and plan to take full advantage of it.

You can wonder if that is good or bad. Well it is kind of bad but it is happening anyway and at least these guys won't just disappear with the pot overnight. I put some smallish amounts (like $100 per ICO) and in bunch of ICOs to see what would happen in the summer. At first all the negative stuff here on HN did seem to happen, now, more than half a year later, with some buy/sell actions at the right times, this only ICO portfolio is all black with a profit of over 30k. I took 50% to fiat and left the rest. The negativity is interesting on here: there are enough like me who know it's a gamble, who put experiments out with money they can miss if it is gone and who continue playing with profits only. Ofcourse we win only because your 'fools' lose, but we are on HN, you would think the people here would be in the former category. For now it is simply free money and where I live, legal and very low taxed. Besides some bad ICOs, which you can very easily recognize by the way, there are actual strong believers who fight for their company and reap the benefits. It is a bubble but not all is a fraud and ponzi in the blockchain space. Many are seeing it as a good way to run a real startup with real plans and products.

Re: Telegram plans multi-billion dollar ICO for chat cryptocurrency

#140
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTC PoW hashing power is supplied by ASICs so it's impossible for BTC miners to do anything with their hardware other than mine BTC/BCash. PoS mining is just rewarding the rich simply for being rich. What could be wrong with that?

BTC ASICs could be re-purposed for any coin that uses the same hashing algorithm of BTC. PoS doesn't reward the rich for being rich any more than a savings account rewards the rich for being rich by letting them make more money off of a given interest rate.

The algorithm BTC uses has been depreciated in favor of ASIC resistant mining protocols which prevent what we see with Bitmain and allow normal users to access mining rewards.

BTC ASICs are a case of failure to prevent centralization. Nearly every successor to Bitcoin has developed ASIC resistant algorithms to allow normal users to contribute to securing the network activity and be rewarded with newly minted supply for doing so.

Block rewards are nothing like savings interest because it works like an all or nothing lottery.

If the developer or an exchange controls 40% or even 10% of the supply, they have a significantly higher likelihood of taking newly minted coins which compounds further increases to their probability of increasing their control of the supply. All the while those who have less of the supply or are too poor to qualify for staking will not be exponentially increasing their wealth.

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