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Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

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Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#131

Post by oceanplexian »

ardit33 wrote: post #86
cletus wrote: post #72

I'm all in favour of treating Internet access as the "fourth utility". It's clear it's become almost as essential to modern life as electricity. I do however find the doom and gloom prognostications around Title II repeal to be incredibly hyperbolic and unhelpful. Fact is, Title II was only introduced in 2015. It's not like repeal in 2017 is going to end the Internet overnight. There are three problems here: 1. The U…

You must be young? I remember a time when you couldn't text to other carrier, while Europe had it since the 90s. I remember how your carrier would not let you use facetime/skype etc.... Anyway, you are paying for access to internet and you should have it. This is akin to letting a private entity building a private highway on a public ground, and the owner of the highway can say: Only Audis and BMWs are allowed here..…

It's not "public ground". Electric companies and utilities acquire a mixture of easements, most of which are actually private, and listed on a property title.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#132

Post by joshAg »

lumisota wrote: post #95
cletus wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually Title II dates back to 1934.

Sorry; I (and presumably your original comment) meant the designation of Internet service providers as common carriers under Title II. This designation was applied in 2015.

ISPs were Title II until 2005 when Michael Powell, the Republican FCC chairman who was appointed by George Bush, reclassified the ISPs as Title 1 as part of the Republican plan to spur internet growth in the US via deregulation. (What we now call) Net neutrality violations followed soon after, but weren't widely reported until 2007 at which point people belatedly realized that Comcast had been violating net neutrality since 2005.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#133

Post by danjoc »

simplify wrote: post #114
jayess wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Censorship by whom? A bunch of websites that are completely separate entities from ISPs that are monopolies for all intents and purposes?' Yes, those same web sites that are breathlessly telling me today the repealing NN is a mortal threat to my very existence, who then turn around and engage in censorship themselves.

Anyone can create their own website. Not everyone can create their own ISP.

We can build our own ISPs. I've read many good posts today that dispute your statement. Here's one,

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15926261

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#134

Post by kgermino »

joshAg wrote: post #132
lumisota wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry; I (and presumably your original comment) meant the designation of Internet service providers as common carriers under Title II. This designation was applied in 2015.

ISPs were Title II until 2005 when Michael Powell, the Republican FCC chairman who was appointed by George Bush, reclassified the ISPs as Title 1 as part of the Republican plan to spur internet growth in the US via deregulation. (What we now call) Net neutrality violations followed soon after, but weren't widely reported until 2007 at which point people belatedly realized that Comcast had been violating net neutralit…

Can you give example of those violations? (And possibly what resulted of them)

Honestly asking, my memory of new events from that era is somewhat hazy.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#135

Post by ardit33 »

oceanplexian wrote: post #131
ardit33 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be young? I remember a time when you couldn't text to other carrier, while Europe had it since the 90s. I remember how your carrier would not let you use facetime/skype etc.... Anyway, you are paying for access to internet and you should have it. This is akin to letting a private entity building a private highway on a public ground, and the owner of the highway can say: Only Audis and BMWs are allowed here..…

It's not "public ground". Electric companies and utilities acquire a mixture of easements, most of which are actually private, and listed on a property title.

Almost all copper/fiber/etc pass through public roads at some point (or beneath them to be more exact), so yes they are using public grounds for their infrastructure.

Same with your gas/electric/water line

While "Wireless" provides are given PUBLIC spectrum to use for their business (they pay for it, but that's besides the point).

So yes, 99% of internet out there uses some public areas at some point.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#136

Post by SamReidHughes »

Afforess wrote: post #128
SamReidHughes wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've already got cellular data service that's much better than the first DSL line my family got. That stranglehold is weaker than you might think.

If cellular data services were not capped (or throttled down, past an imaginary line the phone company rarely shares), then you might have an argument. As it stands, 4g phone service is only a replacement for cable or dsl services for the rarest of individuals. Windows software updates alone will blow you through your cap.

You're looking backwards through time. Look forwards through time. There are all sorts of ways the last mile problem can be solved more cheaply than wiring up every household, with high network speeds.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#137

Post by joshAg »

kgermino wrote: post #134
joshAg wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ISPs were Title II until 2005 when Michael Powell, the Republican FCC chairman who was appointed by George Bush, reclassified the ISPs as Title 1 as part of the Republican plan to spur internet growth in the US via deregulation. (What we now call) Net neutrality violations followed soon after, but weren't widely reported until 2007 at which point people belatedly realized that Comcast had been violating net neutralit…

Can you give example of those violations? (And possibly what resulted of them) Honestly asking, my memory of new events from that era is somewhat hazy.

https://www.freepress.net/blog/2017/04/25/net-neutrality-vio...

What resulted were a bunch of efforts to let ISPs remain Title I but still allow the FCC to enforce net neutrality on them. They failed because the ISPs would sue the FCC over each successive plan/rules.

The last case was Verizon vs the FCC and in that case the judge said the FCC could enforce net neutrality if and only if it classified the ISPs as Title II instead of as Title I.

The FCC then took a couple years trying to find a way around this, but ultimately decided in 2015 to jsut reclassify the ISPs as Title II, because they couldn't find any other way to enforce net neutrality while keeping the ISPs classified as Title I.

PS:

>>>> VERIZON: During oral arguments in Verizon v. FCC in 2013, judges asked whether the phone giant would favor some preferred services, content or sites over others if the court overruled the agency’s existing open internet rules. Verizon counsel Helgi Walker had this to say: “I’m authorized to state from my client today that but for these rules we would be exploring those types of arrangements.” Walker’s admission might have gone unnoticed had she not repeated it on at least five separate occasions during arguments.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#138

Post by walshemj »

simplify wrote: post #103
walshemj wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Local loop unbundling as in the UK does.

Can you explain?

In the UK any ISP can use the last mile typically BT/GPO plant. For example we use BT for POT and Demon for ADSL.

You have a lot of choice in your ISP in the uk

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#139

Post by munk-a »

CalChris wrote: post #74
24gttghh wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm missing how that case relates to the 10th amendment, as it seems to primarily deal with Article V.

The appellees tried to use the 10th and the Court said no and then further said the 10th is basically a legal truism. http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/282/716.html

Sorry, by "legal truism" you mean inherently enforceable because it is reinforcing a point that is taken to be true without any sort of countermand?

Your statement seems self-contradictory.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#140

Post by munk-a »

noncoml wrote: post #82

Forget about Net-Neutrality, it's gone, it's a dead horse. Let's see some competition. I cannot believe that I live in the middle of the infamous Silicon Valley and only have a single choice when it comes to fast broadband, and that one goes down every other month for 3-8 hours.

I am pretty soon that it'll be right back as soon as the FCC is turned blue again, additionally it is still important to discuss the fallout of this decision.
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