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The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income

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Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income

#131

Post by dragonwriter »

jpao79 wrote: post #96
dragonwriter wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't the main benefit of UBI to make it so everything is streamlined into a single program and administrative overhead is reduced? No, the main benefit is that eliminating means testing eliminates perverse effects which reduce the benefit of outside income when in means-tested benefit programs. Reduced total program overhead is a peripheral benefit of a mature UBI vs. existing means-tested benefit programs.

Ok I agree. The main thought was that the pilot doesn't seem to be eliminating the means testing (i.e. conditional welfare). The pilot seems to be just piling UBI onto people's existing federal/state/local welfare checks. And additionally the pilot is giving it to people not already on welfare.

> The main thought was that the pilot doesn't seem to be eliminating the means testing (i.e. conditional welfare).

An immature UBI probably doesn't eliminate all means testing, it just increases from $0 the support level below which benefits aren't subject to a means test; which has similar but reduced benefits in terms of incentives (but lower cost) than full replacement of means-tested programs.

And, it's a pilot, not even the main study.

> The pilot seems to be just piling UBI onto people's existing federal/state/local welfare checks.

I think that's a misreading; it sounds like they did work to avoid beneficiaries losing non-cash aid like housing subsidies and food assistance, but it doesn't sound like (for people eligible to cash aid) they did anything to protect that, so the income would seem to reduce such benefits the same as other outside income would. (Which probably wipes out General Assistance eligibility, but might leave some TANF eligibility.)

> And additionally the pilot is giving it to people not already on welfare.

That's what the U in UBI is all about.

Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income

#132

Post by EGreg »

hyprCoin wrote: post #124
EGreg wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scale issue is a big one. The USA is at once too big and too small at the same time. The intercoin project was started with the aim of letting communities issue and control their own smart cryto currency, and seamlessly integrate it into apps. Same as Paypal, VISA network, Venmo, FB do. UBI becomes just an app on top of that. Then community membership becomes a question of the community members or government. Har…

Discussing actual production-ready UBI avenues results in downvotes. I'm guessing it's a knee-jerk reaction to crypto currencies doing so well and there being many who are either tired of hearing about it or who feel as if they missed out. There is a reason they keep getting mentioned.

The downvoters never explain.

My own guess is they hate when someone links to their own project. Every time I put any link to my projects I get a few downvotes no matter HOW good the rest of the comment is.

Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income

#133

Post by mcguire »

jpao79 wrote: post #108
gamblor956 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've just described the SoCal suburbia...but with backyard farms and solar rooftops and worse internet.

Yup, but with the important distinction being that it is achieved without piles of student loan debt, home mortgage debt and monopoly utility bills (Comcast cable, PG&E), etc. Plus since you're busy farming, you're too busy to go to the mall and therefore don't need a fancy car and latest wardrobe.

Sends like I've heard of that before... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sent-down_youth?wprov=sfla1

Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income

#134

Post by stevens32 »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #109

The question I’m interested in: How do we unlock maximum human potential? Last I checked, welfare does the opposite of this. It helps people merely subsist, not strive for greatness. Then he goes on to compare YC to basic income. Seriously? They take a share in your company and help you develop it. That isn't money for nothing. If he weren't a millionaire and the current president of YC, would we keep seeing articles…

>Last I checked, welfare does the opposite of this. It helps people merely subsist, not strive for greatness.

You're not wrong, but UBI isn't exactly welfare - it's more like a blanket grant to pursue whatever it is you'd like. If that's sitting on a couch watching tv - fine, but most everyone would likely bore of that very quickly.

Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income

#135

Post by condercet »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #109

The question I’m interested in: How do we unlock maximum human potential? Last I checked, welfare does the opposite of this. It helps people merely subsist, not strive for greatness. Then he goes on to compare YC to basic income. Seriously? They take a share in your company and help you develop it. That isn't money for nothing. If he weren't a millionaire and the current president of YC, would we keep seeing articles…

We're discussing it because many of us think that basic income is one of our best bets to survive the oncoming storm. Sam Altman talking about it is one of the most interesting developments towards actually implementing basic income.

Whether this would be good or bad should be open to debate (preferably with evidence), but only two lines in your comment address this.

Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income

#136

Post by neo4sure »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #109

The question I’m interested in: How do we unlock maximum human potential? Last I checked, welfare does the opposite of this. It helps people merely subsist, not strive for greatness. Then he goes on to compare YC to basic income. Seriously? They take a share in your company and help you develop it. That isn't money for nothing. If he weren't a millionaire and the current president of YC, would we keep seeing articles…

"Last I checked, welfare does the opposite of this. It helps people merely subsist, not strive for greatness."

Do you have an alternative for UBI? If so please provide you theory and factual data to support that will help people "strive for greatness"?

Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income

#137

Post by contingencies »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #125
mrob wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welfare discourages striving for greatness, because as soon as you show any sign of success it's taken away from you. The "universal" in UBI means it's paid to everybody, rich and poor. It lacks the weird breakpoints and perverse incentives of welfare. You are always better off working.

Prior to Sam Altman re-envisioning YC as a form of UBI, Paul Graham talked a lot about the idea that the money they gave was insignificant. The real value was in connecting you with movers and shakers and educating you about business creation. Last I checked, UBI does not come with built in business education or introductions to movers and shakers. I was homeless for nearly six years and actively trying to make busin…

FWIW I have noticed your posts and your arguments are lucid. A well-worn path to higher income as a communications professional is corporate PR and media management. You could consider developing an offering here for startups, either a course or a book or (preferably) a business, since we now see so many PR hacks for startups type articles yet as an actual founder I can tell you I don't have time to manually research hitlists for general PR nor source professional imagery, newswire services or upcoming conference/event/speaking/interview opportunities, etc. I think there is definitely room for a paid service in this space with a human touch and it won't take much to stand out, eg. professional translation and redistribution to specific language media of PR announcements as a default service. Good luck on your journey!

Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income

#138

Post by disc »

Suncho wrote: post #120
DoreenMichele wrote: post #109

The question I’m interested in: How do we unlock maximum human potential? Last I checked, welfare does the opposite of this. It helps people merely subsist, not strive for greatness. Then he goes on to compare YC to basic income. Seriously? They take a share in your company and help you develop it. That isn't money for nothing. If he weren't a millionaire and the current president of YC, would we keep seeing articles…

> The question I’m interested in: How do we unlock maximum human potential? > Last I checked, welfare does the opposite of this. It helps people merely subsist, not strive for greatness. It depends what you mean by "human potential." I agree with you that "human potential" is not the right way to frame what basic income unlocks. By giving people money to spend, it unlocks the economy's potential to produce wealth for…

Do you have any links I could peruse that explain how UBI would flatten the demand curve, rather than just shifting it?

Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income

#139

Post by crdoconnor »

condercet wrote: post #135
DoreenMichele wrote: post #109

The question I’m interested in: How do we unlock maximum human potential? Last I checked, welfare does the opposite of this. It helps people merely subsist, not strive for greatness. Then he goes on to compare YC to basic income. Seriously? They take a share in your company and help you develop it. That isn't money for nothing. If he weren't a millionaire and the current president of YC, would we keep seeing articles…

We're discussing it because many of us think that basic income is one of our best bets to survive the oncoming storm. Sam Altman talking about it is one of the most interesting developments towards actually implementing basic income. Whether this would be good or bad should be open to debate (preferably with evidence), but only two lines in your comment address this.

What storm? We're constantly being told that robots can do work better than workers on low wages but evidence presented to support this is very thin.

Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income

#140

Post by Suncho »

jpao79 wrote: post #15

"We’re still in our pilot. It turns out that giving money to people is much harder than you might imagine. We’ve had to work with state, local, federal governments so that people in our study don’t lose their housing eligibility, lose their food assistance just because we’re giving them money and raising their income level. And what we don’t want is to make anyone worse off." It feels like this statement is what woul…

> Isn't the main benefit of UBI to make it so everything is streamlined into a single program and administrative overhead is reduced?

I would say no. The main benefits of basic income are increased levels of economic stability and increased levels of social prosperity.

It may end up being the case that after we implement a basic income, we discover that our society does not need some of our welfare programs. Then we can eliminate them. But that's not the main benefit of basic income.

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