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The compelling case for working less

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Re: The compelling case for working less

#131

Post by raverbashing »

b0rsuk wrote: post #23

One of older articles linked from HN said the very name "stress" is wrong, because it conjures incorrect expectations. That you can forever endure a certain level of pressure, but will break after a certain point. The term "stress" comes from the world of physics. Instead, the article argued, stress resistance is like a muscle. To develop it, you need to exercise it a bit, then STOP. As someone who made working out h…

You won't get overtraining by doing pushups 7 days a week (you shouldn't, but you won't)

Re: The compelling case for working less

#132

Post by rthomas6 »

Swizec wrote: post #28
b0rsuk wrote: post #23

One of older articles linked from HN said the very name "stress" is wrong, because it conjures incorrect expectations. That you can forever endure a certain level of pressure, but will break after a certain point. The term "stress" comes from the world of physics. Instead, the article argued, stress resistance is like a muscle. To develop it, you need to exercise it a bit, then STOP. As someone who made working out h…

And yet professional athletes can train for several hours every day. Sometimes twice. Doing a couple pushups every day won’t kill ya. Being stressed every day however might.

Professional athletes had to build up to that volume. Training to handle increased volume is real. A beginner can't handle near that amount.

Also professional athletes are the best of the best. They are genetic freaks, use drugs to help them recover faster, and devote their lives to their sport.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#133

Post by thenomad »

j7ake wrote: post #47
gerhardi wrote: post #43

When you’re actually good at something you do, dont give 100% in all the time. Get a feeling of what your clients/boss/etc. need to be happy and try to exceed it marginally. - Be capable of 100 in normal working hours - Be expected to deliver 70 - Deliver 80 This provides also a good buffer for errors and other unexpected stuff. And reduces stress.

Is this how any great scientist, athlete, artist produce their works ? I highly doubt they took your advice. If it's just about making money however, then sure that seems like a sound strategy.

You might find looking into this question interesting.

It's not universal, but a surprising number of the greats in all fields work less, not more.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#134

Post by StavrosK »

j0hnml wrote: post #129
StavrosK wrote: post #116

A few years ago, I decided I didn't want to work 40-hour weeks any more, and asked my employer to switch to 32 (four-day weeks), with a 20% pay cut. Satisfaction-wise, it's been fantastic, as four days isn't long enough that you'll get tired by the week, and three free days is amazing to recharge. Unfortunately, I've found that it's rather career-limiting, as people don't care as much if a lowly developer works four-…

How long had you been working there before you asked? And was there any push back? I'm sure this will vary from company to company, but I am curious to hear your case.

I had been working there for two years or so. It's a funny story, actually. I had gotten fired due to a manager who was... less than stellar, and when I was in talks to be rehired, I requested four-day weeks and they agreed. There was no pushback, but I think my new manager, the one who pushed for me to be rehired, went to bat for me on this.

It's been working out great ever since, and, as far as I can tell, for both sides.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#135

Post by funnelsgun »

Spearchucker wrote: post #128
funnelsgun wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that a 911 GT3 RS is not a waste. I would love to own a GT3, let alone a GT3 RS. Most GT3 RS owners are motorsport lovers, and use their GT3 RS for its true purpose. Motorsport and track events are also a great place to make new friends, as are organized road trips to incredible places in the world such as the PetrolHead tours.

I've done the motorsport thing. Drove a '79 M1 around the Nordschleife once. And yes, that experience has value to me, but knowing I did and another hasn't doesn't make me better, or them worse. It just... is. And I'm glad the M1 wasn't mine.

I was at the Nurburgring this summer! I loved it so much I’m going to go back next summer.

Of course, owners are entitled to do whatever they please with their cars - but that doesn’t make it any less disappointing to see a GT3 RS, or any other track car, spend it’s life in start stop traffic in London.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#136

Post by Hendrikto »

gonehome wrote: post #67
kough wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Humans are happy if they are relatively well off compared to what they know. This is super true. I've been congratulating myself all month on my new job, paying me BIG BUCKS, compared to my friends. Well, just found out an old friend of mine also found a new job, getting payed literally twice as much as me. Now I'm in a funk and it's irrational and stupid but I can't help but look at the same number in a totally di…

This is not unique to humans. Check out: https://youtu.be/meiU6TxysCg It takes a lot of effort to learn not to resent accomplishments of people you’re “competing” with even if they’re friends and you’re not directly competing with them. It’s a learned behavior to feel good for them instead. There’s probably a selected reason for this, but it’s possible to overcome it (or at least be aware of its affect). It’s better…

I have this strange dichotomy where I am happy if my friends succeed, but I am also kind of happy if they don‘t.

Seems like I learned to feel good for other people‘s accomplishments, but I haven‘t unlearned comparing myself to them, and feeling good if I accomplish something they do not.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#137

Post by bitL »

funnelsgun wrote: post #115
Spearchucker wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Age fixes that. Used to feel much the same. Now (approaching 50) I just couldn't give a shit anymore. A friend I've grown distant from over the last 4 years or so bought a 911 GT3 RS last year. And suddenly I hear from him. And I marvel at the waste. Purchases like that are meaningful on only two days - the day you buy it, and the day you sell it. I think a mid-20's me might've liked a car like that for the sex it co…

I'd argue that a 911 GT3 RS is not a waste. I would love to own a GT3, let alone a GT3 RS. Most GT3 RS owners are motorsport lovers, and use their GT3 RS for its true purpose. Motorsport and track events are also a great place to make new friends, as are organized road trips to incredible places in the world such as the PetrolHead tours.

It's better to rent a supercar unless you like doing a lot of maintenance work yourself all the time.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#138

Post by ndh2 »

j0hnml wrote: post #129
StavrosK wrote: post #116

A few years ago, I decided I didn't want to work 40-hour weeks any more, and asked my employer to switch to 32 (four-day weeks), with a 20% pay cut. Satisfaction-wise, it's been fantastic, as four days isn't long enough that you'll get tired by the week, and three free days is amazing to recharge. Unfortunately, I've found that it's rather career-limiting, as people don't care as much if a lowly developer works four-…

How long had you been working there before you asked? And was there any push back? I'm sure this will vary from company to company, but I am curious to hear your case.

A more important factor is the country/legislation. In Germany you're entitled by law to work part time (after 6 months of employment)[, unless there are important reasons against this, which an employer would need to prove in court].

Re: The compelling case for working less

#139

Post by dspillett »

virgilp wrote: post #111
dspillett wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Its far more satisfying to 'impress yourself', ie do better than you did before. The converse of this is why stagnation feels bad long term (you don't tend to notice short term, that is just a break taking things easy for a while). Knowing you have not learned/done anything new in a long time can be depressing, and fuels many a mid-life crisis.

But that's completely fixable, right? It'w quite easy to start learning something new, or start doing something new.

Completely. But not always easily. If you let the spiral go too far before reacting it can be hard work climbing out of the rut you've dug for yourself. Someone who becomes properly depressed by the matter is going to have a hard time - it can be a difficult mindset to alter because there isn't often a quick win.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#140

Post by maxxxxx »

konschubert wrote: post #59
Joeri wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The libertarian argument would be that if government didn’t regulate working hours the number of hours worked vs the amount of pay would be negotiated by the labor market and you would be free to choose to work fewer hours in exchange for somewhat reduced pay. The socialist counter-argument would be that under such a system people with few employment options or low skills would be forced to work more hours for the sa…

I don't think it's illegal, in any western country, to work part time. So we HAVE the option to negotiate fewer hours, no?

You have the option to negotiate fewer hours but in a lot of places you will go nowhere. I have several times tried to negotiate eight weeks vacation against a pay cut but the response was always complete confusion or something about policy. I guess if you are sought after it may work but for most commodity devs there is not much to negotiate.
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