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Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

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Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#131

Post by arcticbull »

mirimir wrote: post #119
cortesoft wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a process so simple, why would anyone ever use cash?!

Well, OP could just ask about mailing cash, instead of using Bitcoin ;) And do recall that OP has been banned by Coinbase, and doesn't want to pay over 1-2% fees. So they're a rather special case.

The 3% fee here is the same as a credit card but without any of the benefits, since a credit card nets you purchase protections, extends the manufacturers warranty, 2% or more in cash back and you don't have to pay it off immediately, and it also clears in seconds instead of hours. And the merchant pays the fee not you. Am I missing something?

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#132

Post by anonymous5133 »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #126
swalsh wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always been a negative detractor of bitcoin. But then I realized the problem was it was marketed wrong. As a currency, it's a nightmare of a creation. But as a store of value, it's actually pretty good. As long as you don't buy in at one of the speculative bubbles (which admittedly is when the majority of people get in), it's been pretty good at more or less maintaining its value. As a non-physical thing, it's a…

Why can't people in Latin America just buy gold or dollars to store value ? I mean it's a circular argument. To say bitcoin is a store of value, there has to be an apriori reason why it has value. It can't be a store of value because it is. Right ?

It can get seized by the government. Any traditional assets or physical assets that is. Bitcoin and crypto is significantly harder to do that. You basically need to get the private key. IMO, this is the main reason that it is a a superior store of value compared to gold, dollars or traditional assets. If your government is corrupt then it is reasonable that the police will seize your gold. Not much of a store of value if it can just be taken away from you.

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#134

Post by seibelj »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #126
swalsh wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always been a negative detractor of bitcoin. But then I realized the problem was it was marketed wrong. As a currency, it's a nightmare of a creation. But as a store of value, it's actually pretty good. As long as you don't buy in at one of the speculative bubbles (which admittedly is when the majority of people get in), it's been pretty good at more or less maintaining its value. As a non-physical thing, it's a…

Why can't people in Latin America just buy gold or dollars to store value ? I mean it's a circular argument. To say bitcoin is a store of value, there has to be an apriori reason why it has value. It can't be a store of value because it is. Right ?

Uh... you have to physically store those things? Easy to steal? Can't send to someone across the country instantly? Bitcoin is way better than gold or dollars when you are in an unstable country. People in Venezuela are huge crypto-heads for that reason

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#135

Post by vasilipupkin »

seibelj wrote: post #134
vasilipupkin wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't people in Latin America just buy gold or dollars to store value ? I mean it's a circular argument. To say bitcoin is a store of value, there has to be an apriori reason why it has value. It can't be a store of value because it is. Right ?

Uh... you have to physically store those things? Easy to steal? Can't send to someone across the country instantly? Bitcoin is way better than gold or dollars when you are in an unstable country. People in Venezuela are huge crypto-heads for that reason

Right, but you could create a crypto thingie that is tied to gold or dollars. I agree with what you said but it doesn't tell me how to calculate the price of bitcoin

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#136

Post by Frogolocalypse »

makk wrote: post #108
swalsh wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always been a negative detractor of bitcoin. But then I realized the problem was it was marketed wrong. As a currency, it's a nightmare of a creation. But as a store of value, it's actually pretty good. As long as you don't buy in at one of the speculative bubbles (which admittedly is when the majority of people get in), it's been pretty good at more or less maintaining its value. As a non-physical thing, it's a…

Something that consumes an unbounded amount of electricity is hardly a "non-physical thing."

TIL electricity is a physical thing.

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#137

Post by vasilipupkin »

anonymous5133 wrote: post #132
vasilipupkin wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't people in Latin America just buy gold or dollars to store value ? I mean it's a circular argument. To say bitcoin is a store of value, there has to be an apriori reason why it has value. It can't be a store of value because it is. Right ?

It can get seized by the government. Any traditional assets or physical assets that is. Bitcoin and crypto is significantly harder to do that. You basically need to get the private key. IMO, this is the main reason that it is a a superior store of value compared to gold, dollars or traditional assets. If your government is corrupt then it is reasonable that the police will seize your gold. Not much of a store of valu…

Understood, but that doesn't explain why it's a store of value meaning why can't bitcoin cost 5k vs 10k

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#138

Post by anonymous5133 »

colemannugent wrote: post #7

> ... New York Stock Exchange owner Intercontinental Exchange Inc. is the only one of the four major U.S. exchange operators without public plans to offer bitcoin derivatives. That's pretty big. A couple years ago people were very skeptical that the big players would ever start dabbling in Bitcoin.

That is huge. Five years ago the financial establishment was basically saying it was an investment fraud scheme.

Re: Nasdaq Plans to Introduce Bitcoin Futures

#140

Post by vasilipupkin »

minimax wrote: post #125
vasilipupkin wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree completely. Cash settled futures let people bet on bitcoin without ever touching bitcoin itself. For example, suppose I am a huge bitcoin hater and want to bet that bitcoin will go down 100% in the next 3 months. Why force me to worry about wallets, etc.? I just want to have a way to express my conviction without messing with all that stuff.

Lots of people trade physically settled commodities futures contracts without handling the underlying products. You just have to make sure you close or roll your position before it settles.

Of course, but you could get stuck in a position. What's the point when cash settling accomplishes the same thing ?
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