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Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

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Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#131

Post by marnett »

bkohlmann wrote: post #49
throwawayjava wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Last week one company setup interviews with 20 possible new workers. One showed up for his interview, and one wandered in the next day. 18 nonshows. I bet you'd get approx. 0 noshows if you bumped salary. > Another local company is seeing 50% of new hires failing their first drug test. So don't give drug tests? > Anecdotaly, about 20% of new hires under 30 don’t understand the concept of showing up on time (or at a…

The thing about manufacturing jobs is that they often involve operating heavy machinery. Drug use and intoxication drastically increases the chance of death or dismemberment - for the inebriated, or often, others around them. As a pilot, I seriously don’t care if you show up to work high or not - unless you’re doing maintenance on the jet I’m supposed to fly.

Do they screen for alcoholism? If not, do you think they should? Do you want hungover forklift drivers?

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#132

Post by moduspol »

rainbowmverse wrote: post #95
danielvf wrote: post #9

I worked with small / medium manufacturers in the prosperous part of the Southeast. Hiring is brutal currently. Last week one company setup interviews with 20 possible new workers. One showed up for his interview, and one wandered in the next day. 18 nonshows. Another local company is seeing 50% of new hires failing their first drug test. Anecdotaly, about 20% of new hires under 30 don’t understand the concept of sho…

It's almost as if extended poverty has ruined people's ability to function in a job market that wasn't there for them sooner. Poverty is called a trap for a reason. It's a self-reinforcing cycle as much as it's an income bracket.

Is there a case at all to be made for personal responsibility when such a large percentage don't even bother to show up?

How can one possibly ever get out of poverty if s/he can't even make it to an interview?

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#133

Post by Tarq0n »

turc1656 wrote: post #48
nesyt wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you against this? Flexible working hours that can bend to accommodate very malleable human lives seems better than rigid adherence to traditional schedules for the sake of it.

I imagine what dionidium is getting at is the lack of good, reasonable cause to either not show up or be late. For example, I'm fortunate enough to have a high paying job in the finance industry and our office/company is pretty laid back and very good about the work/life balance thing. But managers here would react in two different ways to people being out late drinking and oversleeping vs. there being a massive acci…

Why resort to such an indirect measure of responsibility? If they're missing client calls or deadlines then address that, don't manage by correlation.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#134

Post by djrogers »

stemc43 wrote: post #63
thanatropism wrote: post #29

This comment (not by me; the poster name isn't even visible anymore): > Illegal border crossings on the southern border are down 78% and blue collar wages are rising. Of course correlation does not equal causation, but when there are fewer available workers to hire/train and demand remains constant, wages tend to rise. was marked dead. Why? Is the illegal crossing number wrong/fake news?

illegals dont have SSNs. EMployers have to run ssn verification before they hire you. These checks are instant and this will popup immediately. Can they still hire you - well maybe for janitorial -> manufacturing jobs I'd say highly unlikely.

That comment is naive at best - do you really think that the majority of undocumented immigrants in the US can't find jobs? Why else would they be here, and why would their numbers dwindle during times of high unemployment?

If you really doubt that illegals can work in manufacturing, try googling for 'immigration bust factory', or similar stories.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#135

Post by jetrink »

ransom1538 wrote: post #108

>> "Anecdotaly, about 20% of new hires under 30 don’t understand the concept of showing up on time (or at all)" Don't kid yourself. Those new hires are at other jobs making more money. I am booked for a roofer in feb 2018 (fingers crossed - friend of a friend). Blue skills are in extremely high demand. And those guys are working extremely hard making really high incomes (400k+). These guys are highly paid and are not…

This reminds me of the observation[1] that most applicants for programming positions can't implement FizzBuzz. This has led some to conclude that the majority of programmers would be stumped by the task, but it is more likely that such programmers are overrepresented in the applicant pool.

1. http://wiki.c2.com/?FizzBuzzTest

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#136

Post by opportune »

ransom1538 wrote: post #108

>> "Anecdotaly, about 20% of new hires under 30 don’t understand the concept of showing up on time (or at all)" Don't kid yourself. Those new hires are at other jobs making more money. I am booked for a roofer in feb 2018 (fingers crossed - friend of a friend). Blue skills are in extremely high demand. And those guys are working extremely hard making really high incomes (400k+). These guys are highly paid and are not…

I always read these ridiculously high salaries and laugh. Your average HVAC worker is not making $400k. I do know people in construction/HVAC/plumbers/electricians and it's the bosses making that money, not the grunt workers. The people on the front lines still make good money, for some easily approaching $100k/year, so there's not really a need for embellishment. That isn't to say that it's unattainable, but it's akin to saying that software developers make $400k/year when it's usually 10-20+ year tenured engineering managers at a few specific companies actually making that much.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#137

Post by vkou »

darpa_escapee wrote: post #110
logfromblammo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just give an automated field-sobriety test for alertness, judgment, and reflexes at the start of each shift? Pass the test, and you can clock in and get to work. Fail the test, hit the nap room (unpaid) for a while, and try again when you wake up. It would catch people who are drunk, high, having a stroke, or just sleepy, rather than just the guy who used cannabis two weekends ago and is perfectly capable of…

Field sobriety tests are like polygraph tests: highly subjective, easily influenced by bias and have little to no scientific backing.

Neither are drug tests for determining whether or not someone is high when they show up to work.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#138

Post by logfromblammo »

Y7ZCQtNo39 wrote: post #65
dionidium wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting aside my particular company, your response is just more evidence of the culture change I'm talking about. Not every job is going to engage you or enable you to make the kind of difference you want to make in the world. The notion that this is a valid excuse for telling your boss, "hey, pops, I'm not feeling engaged this morning, gonna be in later" is a new one . Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe not. But it's…

I think there is some truth to what we're both saying. At my particular company, the koolaid has always been about how innovate and exciting the work is. But you get in and spend a lot of your time fixing bugs and working on old, monolithic codebases. People want to make a difference, employers sell the vision, and then there's this mis-match and you have the disengaged worker. I think the problem is the reality that…

I think the problem is that starting in the mid-70s, companies have been continuously devaluing their human workers.

Before that, it was possible to take a job after graduation and stay with the same company until retirement. A worker's loyalty to the company was rewarded in kind, with the company's loyalty to the worker. People got raises and promotions. They grew roots.

Now, there is zero corporate loyalty. If you can't predict a profit for this quarter for your specific individual contribution, regardless of how hard you can work, you're fired. But you will come crawling back when we need you again, won't you?

The workers have responded. If the company stops making the work worthwhile, the worker will slack off or jump ship. If the company force-feeds its Flavor-Ade, the employees will just puke it up as soon as it's safe to do so. If the company tells baldfaced lies about itself, the employees smile and nod, while thinking about the rude gestures they would like to be making.

The "lack of engagement" is because the employees know that management cares about them not at all, but the forms must still be honored in order to receive the paycheck. In short, your company is bullshit and the workers hate it; they are just using it to get what they need and will ditch it the instant that a better deal comes along. We are all mercenaries now.

We will disobey whenever it's more convenient for us, and we think we can get away with it. Because the company executives are just our bosses, not our friends or our leaders or our prophets. If they fire us, we move on to the next bosses just like them. We're not going to bust our ass to earn them another dollar. Maybe if we are freshly fallen off the back of the turnip truck, we will go the extra mile, but it doesn't take long for those folks to learn. So the disengaged worker is the default. We learned from our elders, who were forcibly disengaged by their employers.

And since my fortunes are not tied to those of my employer in any meaningful way, I will not stick around to help bail out a sinking ship. If you're going down, I'm not even going to plug the leak and call for help. I'll just grab a lifeboat and be on my way, thanks. It will probably even be an even smoother ride, as I won't have to worry about any rising tides raising my boat.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#139

Post by skellera »

logfromblammo wrote: post #78
bkohlmann wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about manufacturing jobs is that they often involve operating heavy machinery. Drug use and intoxication drastically increases the chance of death or dismemberment - for the inebriated, or often, others around them. As a pilot, I seriously don’t care if you show up to work high or not - unless you’re doing maintenance on the jet I’m supposed to fly.

Why not just give an automated field-sobriety test for alertness, judgment, and reflexes at the start of each shift? Pass the test, and you can clock in and get to work. Fail the test, hit the nap room (unpaid) for a while, and try again when you wake up. It would catch people who are drunk, high, having a stroke, or just sleepy, rather than just the guy who used cannabis two weekends ago and is perfectly capable of…

No one is required to give you a job. The increased cost to do that everyday is not worth it to the company if they can weed out possible irresponsible workers from a drug test. It’s work, not a babysitter.

All everyone is talking about is weed which I’m sure most of us agree shouldn’t be tested for but we don’t even know what the failed tests failed for.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#140

Post by humanrebar »

Y7ZCQtNo39 wrote: post #123
throwawaytime wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a lot of latent anger in this thread against lazy software programmers who don't show up on time. In case it's helpful, here's my story from two years ago about living with undiagnosed narcolepsy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10984478 One of my memories of that job was sleeping fully-dressed for work, then leaping out of bed when my alarm goes off. I'd carefully balance on my feet and wait for the tired…

> One way to handle it is to be upfront with your employer. This tends not to work. It's a medical condition. Employers need to provide reasonable accommodations if you're able to fulfill the job. Are you able to do the job on a slightly shifted schedule? Chances are it's the case. > It makes scheduling meetings extremely difficult. Morning standups are out. How many of you have weekly standups? Could do afternoon st…

> Employers need to provide reasonable accommodations if you're able to fulfill the job.

How does an individual make sure that rule is enforced?

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