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On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

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Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#131

Post by extra88 »

Veelox wrote: post #123
evanlivingston wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing a familiarity with a good chunk of the history of systematic racism in the U.S. There are reasons homogeneous communities form in the U.S. A few of those reasons have to do with city planning and legislation. City planning can be racist in nature and promote exclusionary communities. Redlining, while not typically state legislation, is a good example of practices that contributed to the formati…

I think you raise sever good points. The past did contain city planning that was racist and had redlining. Those are past problems that do need some form of correction and I would support correcting them if you have specific actionable ideas. I would like to point out that race isn't the only reason you couldn't afford college. Do you see any problem with race blind admissions and race blind aid? That way everyone wh…

It's still common for people of color to not be shown properties that are shown to white people by landlords, real estate brokers, etc. Sometimes it's unequivocal (i.e. lying about what's available), sometimes it's softer, e.g. making assumptions about ability to pay, or "culture fit" (on behalf of the PoC or potential neighbors).

> Do you see any problem with race blind admissions and race blind aid? That way everyone who is disadvantaged when it comes to being able to pay for college gets a helping hand?

It sounds like you're describing need-blind admission. Few universities have the funding for that, they depend upon a certain percentage of students paying most or all of the tuition. Harvard, which has very strong financial aid and is officially a need-blind, still admits a high percentage of "legacies," who are much less likely to need a lot of financial aid.

Courts have decided that it's legal for universities to consider race as one of the factors when deciding who to admit. After centuries of bias, you can't just say "anyone can apply" and expect better outcomes to just happen, it requires more active effort. That doesn't mean taking someone who is unqualified but of the pool of qualified people, you don't just pick the "top" people based on quantitative measures.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#132

Post by lamp_book »

sp332 wrote: post #55
le-mark wrote: post #16

I found this piece to be interesting, but rather odd too. For example from the middle; I took the first option. As a child, I accepted without thinking that my small town, a city of 9,383 people, contained within it every possible human type; if I could not fit in here, I would not fit in anywhere. (“Fitting in” I defined as being occupied on Friday nights and, sooner or later, kissing a girl.) Every week that passed…

This sounds like the general lament of an intelligent, intellectually curious person growing up than anything specific to the midwest. But in a larger city you'd encounter more kinds of people and feel less weird. You'd also be more likely to meet people who are actually relatable.

But that has little to do with being in the Midwest. You'd meet a bigger variety of people in Cincinnati than 29 Palms, CA. People seem to conflate "small town America" with Midwest while overlooking their own rural backyards and ignoring Midwestern cities.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#133

Post by centicosm »

Veelox wrote: post #61

I grew up in the Midwest and moved to Silicon Valley. I think that people here don't understand what this author describes as "Midwestern history is a study in racial quarantine." I would go as far as to say that racial is the wrong word to describe what happens in the Midwest. I think that communities in the Midwest have tighter cultural restrictions on what it means to be "one of us." This can be affected by where…

There are interesting agent-based models that explore segregation based on the relatively innocuous idea that people have a tendency to want at least some portion of their neighbors to be similar to themselves (across some dimension). In those models, segregated populations are found to occur with frequency far exceeding what one might think would emerge without explicit intent. http://nifty.stanford.edu/2014/mccown-schelling-model-segreg...

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#134

Post by colanderman »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #104
Veelox wrote: post #61

I grew up in the Midwest and moved to Silicon Valley. I think that people here don't understand what this author describes as "Midwestern history is a study in racial quarantine." I would go as far as to say that racial is the wrong word to describe what happens in the Midwest. I think that communities in the Midwest have tighter cultural restrictions on what it means to be "one of us." This can be affected by where…

As a Midwesterner, this is incredibly accurate. I personally don't like multiculturalism, and I don't know of many people in my area that do. In my opinion and experience, multiculturalism in society makes a sense of community very difficult if not impossible to create. Having standard methods of communication, standard social and moral norms, and standard goals and beliefs makes empathizing with my neighbor so much…

"I personally don't like multiculturalism"

I'm pretty sure it was the offspring of people who "don't like multiculturalism" who beat me up in middle school for being part of geek culture rather than the prevailing rural culture of my hometown.

I personally am a big fan of respecting others despite cultural differences.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#135

Post by extra88 »

creaghpatr wrote: post #122
Balgair wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Southern Indiana comes to mind. Here is the SPLC's interactive map of 'hate groups' in operation. Though the density seems, to my eyes, correlate strongly with population, there are still a fair few assholes out here. https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map

The SPLC is not a credible organization for mapping 'hate groups'

While I think their definition of "hate group" is sometimes too expansive (e.g. religious groups that are mostly about something else but disagree with gay marriage), SPLC is still credible.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#136

Post by AnimalMuppet »

wardrobe wrote: post #50
domparise wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking also as a Midwesterner, I would disagree. I was born and raised in Michigan, and have not really left much other than to couch hop and envy the lives of my friends who've moved out to the coast. I feel that the contempt the author descends into is self-inflicted, and may representative of the culture and authors midwestern upbringing. From what I've observed, midwesterners are brutally humble, almost to a fa…

No one ever thinks about the mountain West/Southwest, what's our stereotype?

Others' stereotype of us: Who is there to have a stereotype about? Nobody lives there. Not "nobody" like "nobody lives in the Midwest", really nobody, like "total population: 0". Just a collection of ghost towns.

Our stereotype of ourselves: Rather close to the Midwesterners, minus the emphasis on agriculture. (Yes, we grow what we can where we can, but lack of water means that there isn't much. Agriculture doesn't dominate the way it does in the Midwest.) We say that we are self-reliant, independent, friendly (except maybe to outsiders), down to earth. We're fairly well educated, but we still have good common sense.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#137

Post by Veelox »

extra88 wrote: post #131
Veelox wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you raise sever good points. The past did contain city planning that was racist and had redlining. Those are past problems that do need some form of correction and I would support correcting them if you have specific actionable ideas. I would like to point out that race isn't the only reason you couldn't afford college. Do you see any problem with race blind admissions and race blind aid? That way everyone wh…

It's still common for people of color to not be shown properties that are shown to white people by landlords, real estate brokers, etc. Sometimes it's unequivocal (i.e. lying about what's available), sometimes it's softer, e.g. making assumptions about ability to pay, or "culture fit" (on behalf of the PoC or potential neighbors). > Do you see any problem with race blind admissions and race blind aid? That way everyo…

I'm not sure how you made the jump from race-blind admission to need-blind...

I agree that more would need to be done than just saying "anyone can apply" but I don't think that the University should be doing most of the work, I think that we should work in the communities that need help to improve education so that more people are encouraged to apply and those that apply are more qualified.

>you don't just pick the "top" people based on quantitative measures.

Please be careful how you say this, some people will hear "We should pick PoC over more qualified white people." This gives the alt-right the opportunity to fan flames that should die.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#138

Post by extra88 »

[deleted] wrote: post #105
Frondo wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first thought is how we need to start developing a better working vocabulary around having racist attitudes. Like the big-R Racist is the white power asshole who wants to create a white ethnostate--that's one that's easy to spot, and most of us can say we're not that. The real pernicious damage to communities of color comes from the little-r racism that SO SO MANY people carry around totally unthinkingly. Like eve…

[deleted]

I don't buy into this big-R, little-r racism but "well if they'd just work harder, or get a better job," and "they" refers to black people, that's racism.

> Racism is very much a matter of intent.

No. Unconscious bias, which by definition does not include intent, can still be a form of racism.

I do agree that sometimes other forms of bias or prejudice is taken for racism. Many times it's a class issue; many richer people want to avoid poor people but if people of color are far more likely to be poor, they're more likely to be avoided.

Re: On Being Midwestern: The Burden of Normality

#140

Post by mcguire »

The author here implicitly assumes the truth of the descriptions of the Midwest and Midwesterners that he discusses. Further, also assumes that nothing changes, nothing happens in the Midwest. (I particularly liked the intro; now try describing the Midwest to someone who doesn't actually love there.) Everyone is from the Midwest or describing the Midwest, no one seems to be living there.

Here's a hint: there is no Midwest. That should be obvious; it's roughly twice as far from Oklahoma City to St. Louis as from London to Paris.

If you want to read about the past of the central part of the US, can I suggest a brilliant writer who isn't mentioned in the article: Walter Prescott Webb. See The Great Plains or The Frontier.

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