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Flattr 2.0 launches to the public

blog.flattr.net

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Re: Flattr 2.0 launches to the public

#131

Post by Ajedi32 »

stevenj wrote: post #28

Some things to consider about Flattr: you have to install a web browser extension; the extension requires access to your full browsing history; it was bought by the parent company of Adblock Plus, Eyeo.

The web browser extension part makes sense. In order to handle payments completely automatically without user intervention, there needs to be _some_ piece of software that keeps track of what users are engaging with and handles payments based on that. Makes perfect sense to use a browser extension for that.

Same goes for the association with Adblock Plus. Both of Adblock Plus and Flattr are aimed at fixing the basic monetization strategy used on the web. Adblock Plus does it by removing overly intrusive ads while leaving less annoying ones, whereas Flattr aims to replace ads entirely by just paying the sites you visit directly.

Re: Flattr 2.0 launches to the public

#132

Post by bauerd »

I remember Flattr from a long time ago, when some German podcasters made a push for it. Thought it was a great idea at that time. If I remember correctly, it was a small square button with the number of tippers below it and upon click one's monthly spending balance would in part go to the creator.

A few months ago I stumbled upon Flattr again (thought it was dead till that day). Couldn't log in with my old credentials, couldn't sign up for new ones, but was told that I can put myself on the waiting list for "Flattr 2".

Now that this Flattr 2 thing has launched I can't help but ask myself how badly you can fuck up a product that once had an enthusiastic user base. Not only that they told existing users to sign up for their product again, the product now is much more cumbersome (browser extension required) and costly because of the fees.

I strongly believe that there's a need for social micropayments done right, but I don't see myself ever making a deposit to Flattr. Someone should simply clone Flattr 1 and keep the fees as low as possible. It was a good and much needed product.

Re: Flattr 2.0 launches to the public

#133

Post by endijs »

the8472 wrote: post #130
endijs wrote: post #33

I was big fan of original Flattr, that's why i was excited for 2.0 too. However that "extension" setup is something that still keeps me in evaluation phase, rather than 100% in. I inspected extension (not 100% of it, but a bit of code, storage, xhr calls). Some findings: * They use whitelist (visible in source) of sites, thus they do not record activity on all sites, but just the ones in whitelist. * You can individu…

> * They use whitelist (visible in source) of sites, thus they do not record activity on all sites, but just the ones in whitelist. Is that in the manifest or in the source?

To view whitelist you can go to "background page" of extension and check out source for /lib/background/index.js . Whitelist starts from line 12440 and ends on 50262.

Re: Flattr 2.0 launches to the public

#134

Post by tobltobs »

lsdornheim wrote: post #98
IvanK_net wrote: post #5

I would like to point out two things about Flattr: - Whenever other people send you money, Flattr keeps 10% from that money. - When you make money with Flattr, Flattr expects you to give this money back to other authors you like. And they will send them back to other authors. As the money are sent back and forth, and 10% are removed at each step, Flattr is the only one actually making any money.

As others have commented, Flattr itself keeps 7.5%. The detailed fees are described here: https://blog.flattr.net/2017/10/our-new-fee-structure/ Hopefully the payment cost will go down again, but unfortunately micropayments come with high transaction cost. Compared to revenue streams like App-Stores or even advertising, this is still much more efficient. Regarding keeping money in the system: In the new version, ther…

> unfortunately micropayments come with high transaction cost. Compared to revenue streams like App-Stores

Flattr is neither a micropayment service in the sense that you make a "real" transaction nor is it an App store.

Re: Flattr 2.0 launches to the public

#135

Post by jnink »

CaveTech wrote: post #14
tome wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Nope, not gonna touch that! (after finding out that flatter was acquired by the makers of Adblock Plus) What's wrong with Adblock Plus? I use it. I thought it was supposed to be good. Is there something I've missed?

A lot of people have issue with the fact they allow certain ads through if the publisher pays them enough. They claim that these ads are not aggressive or distracting, but the optics are pretty bad. A for profit ad-blocking company that makes money from ads.

Well that is actually not correct. 1. Only those publishers, which comply with the Acceptable Ads Criteria (www.acceptableads.com) will be passed through and only to those users who haven't decided to block all ads. 2. Only those publishers pay money, which get more than 10 Millionen additional ad impressions via the Accéptable Ads program. 3. Acceptable Ads Criteria are already handed over to the Acceptable Ads Committee (AAC): https://acceptableads.com/en/committee/. The AAC is an independent committee, made up of eleven stakeholders who represent three distinct coalitions: User Advocates Coalition (digital rights organization, ad-block user), For Profit Coalition (advertiser, advertising agency, ad-tech company, publisher / content creator) and the Expert Coalition (user agent, creative agent, researcher / academia).

Re: Flattr 2.0 launches to the public

#136

Post by jnink »

PurpleRamen wrote: post #94
CaveTech wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people have issue with the fact they allow certain ads through if the publisher pays them enough. They claim that these ads are not aggressive or distracting, but the optics are pretty bad. A for profit ad-blocking company that makes money from ads.

Last time I read about it, it was still the users choice whether they wanna see those non-aggresive ads. Did it change? Personally I see it as a good choice. I don't have a problem with ads themself, but with aggresive or harmful ads. So educating the companys to use better ads is good for the users.

You are entirely correct PurpleRamen, nothing has changed.

Re: Flattr 2.0 launches to the public

#137

Post by jnink »

growt wrote: post #101
gorhill wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> something a free solution like ublock origin can not do. The core of the lawsuit was about Eyeo's business model specifically, charging for being listed in a whitelist. This of course does not apply to uBO.

I think the lawsuits started before Eyeo introduced the whitelist? But imagine if uBO was used by 90% of all Users, so the big publishers would notice and lobby to get ad-blocking banned, there would be no one to defend it then. Or if google took over ad-blocking by making it build-in in chrome (and of course whitelisting it's own ads). edit: just realized you're the ublock author! I didn't mean what I said as an ins…

>I think the lawsuits started before Eyeo introduced the whitelist? That's correct. Publishers explicitly say that they don't want to have adblocking at all (Whitelist is just a sideshow). You can also see that from the lobbying activities in Germany pushing for an anti-adblocking law (https://netzpolitik.org/2016/informationsfreiheitsanfrage-lo...) and other proceedings with smaller adblockers. Plus, most obvious, it is way easier for a German publisher to sue a German company rather than a someone behind a project whom you don't know and obviously not seated in Europe.

Re: Flattr 2.0 launches to the public

#138

Post by johannes1234321 »

bonqis wrote: post #114
johannes1234321 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was Flattered 1.0. Peter Sunde let his connection to Flattered go to avoid issues with the PirateBay case, else there was the risk that the legal charges could have damaged flattr ... but Flattr 1.0 never managed to be really profitable (too few sites with a Flattr button -> not gaining many active users -> less sites with Flattr button) thus they sold out to those Adblocker Guys ....

Ok, that is not really what happened. But it's a too long story for a HN comment ;)

Yes, and the exact true story is only know by the ones involved :-)

Re: Flattr 2.0 launches to the public

#139

Post by [deleted] »

lsdornheim wrote: post #96
IvanK_net wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course you can withdraw your money. But when you just want to make money, both Creator and Contributor profiles are crated (to make contributions super easy). It is quite hard to make money with Flattr (you need to be really popular to get enough micropayments), and I guess that 95 % of Creators never reach the 10€ limit to actually withdraw their money. So giving money back to others is the "obvious" thing to do.

In the new version, there are separate accounts for "givers" (contributors) and "receivers" (creators / publishers). So, just shuffling money around is neither the obvious nor the intended solution.

[deleted]

Re: Flattr 2.0 launches to the public

#140

Post by tobltobs »

lf1 wrote: post #124
IvanK_net wrote: post #5

I would like to point out two things about Flattr: - Whenever other people send you money, Flattr keeps 10% from that money. - When you make money with Flattr, Flattr expects you to give this money back to other authors you like. And they will send them back to other authors. As the money are sent back and forth, and 10% are removed at each step, Flattr is the only one actually making any money.

Flattr only keeps 7.5%. As a creator, % wise you end up with more in your pocket this way vs a lot of other revenue sources. Also, no fees are charged until end of Nov, so some time to test the waters.

> Flattr only keeps 7.5%.

That is only true for cases where users credit their account only with $3. For every $ above this limit flattr will also pocket some additional money. For a 10$ account recharge flattr will keep additional 3.5%, for a $20 recharge they will pocket additional 5%.

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